I thought I'd write a new introduction. I've sorta outgrown the last one. And so in an attempt to get to know people better here goes. It's a bit long, but I wanted to touch on a few things and hopefully foster some understanding and if I needed to clear anything up maybe this will help.
I'm 34, an RM and live in Northern California. I have a testimony of the Savior, the Prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, the church and the Prophet.
I'm also attracted to guys.
I know how hard it is to believe something and to feel something else. The contradiction is painful. I think that it's healthy to be honest with yourself, it's the first step in trying to face it and overcome it. And yes, I said overcome it. That doesn't mean deny it or pretend it doesn't exist, it means "I choose to act not be acted on." I believe that my struggle is part of the "natural man" and I need to overcome the desires to live by the flesh and my lusts and live the way God wants me to live. That also means feel love the way God wants me to love. I also know God gave me this struggle to test and refine me, I know in Mormon culture we like to call our struggles gifts, but I do think it is a tool to teach me and to give me things I need to have to become who I am to become. I also know I need to acknowledge the way I feel as real.
I know so many guys who repress it and when they finally do cave, it turns them into really mean people who end up bitter, cynical and sarcastic towards the Church, God and anyone who is trying to be faithful to it or who may in their attempts to be faithful make them feel guilty.
I am so grateful to Elder Oaks for making it clear that I am not to use my feelings or attractions to define who I am and that it is my actions not my feelings that I am accountable for. I am not really out. I mean I've talked to my bishop. I've never really told my parents. I tell people who I think need to know. But I don't see it as being something that I need to "come out proud" about. That's a worldly concept. I am who I am, I am me first and foremost.
As for me personally, I've been to the temple and I've taken covenants that "I won't have sexual relations (notice the word relations and not sex, I believe that means things like making out, kissing and whatnot), with anyone expect with the person I'm married to." And so the bottom line is at least in this respect, I know what God's eternal purpose is for me and I can't reach that in a homosexual relationship. It's really that plain and simple. I can fight against the pricks so to speak and drag my feet and cry about how unfair it is. I can curse God and try to come up with reasons why I am the exceptions to the rules. But if the church is true and that is the doctrine, then I have to accept it if I want to be faithful. God is no respecter of persons and he doesn't give Personal Revelation that would counter what we know is true. I know he can give us revelations to help us individually be faithful and that isn't always the same as he would give
others but its always about how we can stay on the right path. Its more like a GPS system then being given a different map altogether.
Now having said that, I do believe that there can be real love between two guys. It just can't be eternal as much as I want it to be, or hope it could be. If what I believe is true it will have great eternal consequences. This is the hard part because I know that love can be just as real right now and that love can trap someone into not wanting to accept the truth and keep them bound to something that will eventually have devastating effects on their eternal lives.
At times I've thought I could make a compromise with God, if I could be with a man I love, I'd forgo sex and just live with him monogamously, coupled but celibate. And at times I've also wondered how God can keep his promise to me that if I'm faithful I can marry someone I love when I've never liked girls. And yes I've used "attraction" as an excuse not to pursue dating saying that "it's unfair to the girl." But I've also come to realize those aren't the real reasons. They are good excuses that make me feel better about not doing what I know I should. Because while I say I want to, I really don't and it really does come down to what I want and what I'm willing to do. I can believe God or my own doubts. Both are powerful forces.
These are hard questions for me and while I don't know the hows, I believe I know the answers, it comes in being faithful and following the Prophet. Its just hard to follow the Prophet sometimes when you feel like the answers are general and don't take how you feel into consideration. But then I also have to hold onto the fact that as far as Christs atonement is concerned, the pain He felt was very personal. He not only suffered for my sins but He also suffered and endured my pain so He knows how I feel. So if His servants give me a commandment from Him, while that servant may not fully understand it or give it with the verbiage that I feel shows understanding, I have to have faith in who his master is and that He loves me and understands me.
I've been "the only" for a long time. Growing up in the church in a small town meant facing being the only LDS guy at school and being judged according to those standards. Then add feeling like I was t"he only" one at Church who was different. I've never felt like I've fit in. And of course growing up in the Church being "gay" was a sin. No one ever told me that I could have those feelings and it wasn't my fault. It wasn't taught but it was implied that "I choose to feel this way" I knew I didn't, so I felt as if I was some sort of mistake. I went on a mission, and developed a strong testimony, but I cam home still attracted to guys. But all of this has made me stronger.
It also has unfortunately at times made me very head strong. I've joined some of the "moho" groups, again I use that term only for clarity, I think its a bad term which turns us into "ites." Personally, I reject a lot of the ideas that come from this community. We are all flawed people. These flaws are tools that God uses to teach us. I think a lot of the new philosophies out there serve to make us feel unbroken and fixed. As if there is really nothing wrong with us. That we need to "accept ourselves as we are if we are to be happy" and that change isn't possible and even a sin to consider. While I'll agree that change means more of a change of heart then change of feeling, I believe it means humbling ourselves to His will and not insist on Him accepting ours and then trying to mold the gospel around it. I believe that in order to be true disciples we have to mold our will around His. We are ALL broken and need fixing. That's what the atonement of
Jesus Christ is all about. That's the whole point of mortality. To overcome those things that do hold us back.
I think sticking to these ideas have led in part to me failing in my attempts to make friends because I can come off as preachy or over zealous or clingy or whatever emotional issue people want to use to make themselves feel better about judging me and distancing themselves from me.
And, YES I WRITE LONG POSTS!!!
I've tried reaching out to some in the LDS gay or SGA community and have found that to be honest with you those who are struggling can be just as mean and hateful as anyone in the gay community. But I also need to accept that a lot of it comes as a self defense mechanism. Its a product of self loathing and double life they are trying to lead. They don't want to feel bad, they want support. I may remind them of something they see in themselves that makes them feel unconformable or I remind them of something they want to block out. But support needs to hold up not justify or enable. They can also be just as judgmental about things like a persons age and physical appearances. If I am saying some harsh things, remember these are based on my own personal experiences.
And yes, while I know this may be making an unfair "generalization" I think there is some truth to it. I can't really "gay it up" at Gossip or some other gay club or bar on Saturday and than pass the Sacrament on Sunday, as if I'm visiting Sodom on a day pass. I can't than get mad at someone and call them judgmental who may point out the inconsistency. I can't use the "the Savior said not to judge me" card knowing that he also said "go and sin no more." BUT and I admit, I'm also very good at graying the area and saying "I just go to be with my friends and dance" but I know the other reason is that in some ways I crave being in an environment where I can let my hair down, "be who I want to be right now" and forget who "I'm trying to be," I can be "myself." These places normalize what I know is a sin but wish I could partake in without sinning. But I also know that the Sprint is miles away from those places.
Its hard when you don't fit in into either camp. And ironically some of my closet friends, those who have encouraged me to stay faithful have been LDS guys who are in gay relationships. I don't really know how to explain this other then to say that while I do believe what they are doing is wrong, they are living with honesty and not living double lives or trying to hide stuff. I also think deep down they know what they have given up and they don't want to see someone else go that path. I've also realized that these guys, while inactive aren't bitter or hateful towards the church. I've found that that comes mostly from those who are trying to lead double lives.
I've also learned a few lessons about making friends.
One thing I have learned is that I can't take the rejection of an offered friendship personally. I can't take what someone thinks about me or how they react to me as an indication of my personal value or worth as a person if my offer of fellowship or friendship was given with good intentions and honesty. There are times when that rejection has nothing to do with me and more to do with another persons emotional issues. Perhaps I remind them of something about themselves they are trying to avoid or forget or maybe its just an outward sign of there own inward struggle. When we are trying to feel normal we often attracted towards those we consider normal.
One final thought. I also can't let the way I've been treated by a few color the way I treat others. I do need to maybe listen more and talk less. Not be so free with my advice or opinions but I also need to be more forgiving. The hardest part of being forgiving is being able to forgive when someone hurts you and won't acknowledge it or apologize. True love will allow you to forgive that person and accept their flaws even if they refuse to do the same for you. I don't know why some people react to me the way they do. But I need to love them anyways and be willing to accept them as they are. I don't by to the notion that you can only have a few real friends. I think the power of love is insurmountable and there is always room for one more friend. Forgiveness needs to mean something to the person we are forgiving. It can't just be done to make us feel better. It has to be real. And sometimes its not accepted, but as long as my attempt is genuine then
that's all that matters.
The Internet is a tool for keeping in touch with friends, not a substitute for friends. But I also think its a good way to move beyond you local social network and reach out to new people and make new friends.
If I turned my back on everyone that I think is sinning I am making a mistake. I think also trying to project the "I love you even if you are a sinner" mentality can also be patronizing. I am honesty trying as hard as I can and being as faithful as I can. And that's something. I'm not perfect. But I need love and friends to. When I don't post for a while it would be good to know that people miss me or wonder how I am. We all need this. There are a lot of LDS guys who struggle with this who have given up. I think that those of us who are here are making an attempt no matter how strong or weak that attempt is to hold to something. I don't think we will ever get to the Celestial Kingdom fighting alone.
Honestly there are times when I can only be as faithful as I have the strength to be. These are times when I need support. If this is true for anyone else. If the church is true there will be a time when if I am trying, than I will be more fully converted.
Again if I have offended anyone in the past I'm sorry. I hope you will forgive me and give me another chance. I'd like to know what I did and be given a chance to fix it. But I also refuse to dwell on it past this. I'm extending a hand and an apology. I'm willing to move it further if anyone I've hurt wants to. But I won't force it. I'm sorry if my efforts to reach out have bothered anyone. They were done with the best intentions. I was only trying to be supportive and show love for those who struggle also. I have so much respect for those of you who are trying and I feel for those of you who feel like giving up. I've been there so many times. I understand. If you need a friend or someone to talk to I'm here.
Wednesday, October 10, 2007
Sunday, October 7, 2007
Letter to a friend: The Gospel, The Church and The Culture
This is a comment I left on a friends blog. I think it addresses some key issues. I wanted to share it here.
The more and more I read your blogs the more and more I want to point out that I think your biggest problem is that you have confused the culture of the church with the doctrine.
If you or your friends, including ATP and who else may be reading this reads this comment and if I can say one thing that you will take serious and ponder, I ask that you read this. I will repost it to my blog and I seriously would like to have comments on it. Please know that I'm am trying to write you with true love and reassurance. I feel I know your heart even if we don't see eye to eye.
A. The doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way that we will ever come to the Savior. It is true. It is THE ONLY way to gain exultation and salvation. The atonement is the key.
B. The Church of Jesus Christ is true. It is divinely led by inspiration. Christ is at the head of the Church. It is led on Earth by men who are inspired but who are also NOT perfect.
C. Mormonism is a culture. There are many good and wonderful things about this culture. But there are also many things that are dogmatic that aren't true. And yes a lot of the culture is at odds with the doctrine. You can be as good a Latter-day Saint living far off in the littlest branch with not the slightest bit of Mormon Culture. As long as you live the doctrine and keep the commandments.
There are three parts that I've spoken about. I want to make it clear. They are connected. But only the first is Eternal. The second will lead you to and keep you true to the first. The third is only a product of both, but in itself its worthless. That's why being culturally Mormon won't save you.
There are things that are true that are doctrine that to be honest are hard to accept because they go against our own personal desires and wants. There are things that we are ask to sacrifice in obiendence. There are things that we need to accept as true in faith. And there are things that aren't really that important.
There are things like Pres Monson said in the Priesthood session are like little strings that we carry in our pockets that will keep us from the things that are really important.
There are things that keep people from being friends that shouldn't. And yes there are people that if you listen to them will convince you that things that are true are false and that a key element of agency is the ability to choose without fear what is wicked and what will rob you of eternal blessing and that because we aren't to judge others we have a license to sin with out any consequences.
But there are also those who some would call monsters who are just wounded souls needing love and acceptance and tolerance. Most of all they need to feel like they are children of God and not spiritual orphans. I know I need to forgive some of those people who may have offended me as those who are simply lashing out because of hurt in their own lives.
I don't know what else I can say. I accept you as a friend and brother. It's up to you to accept me. I can't help what you think of me, but I have all the power over what I think about you.
I wish you would realize that the gospel is true. That the church needs people like you to help those who do struggle. You can be the most faithful member of the church. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between culture, dogma and true doctrine.
Keep the faith, pray, stay close to the Spirit. Reach out. A friend of mines mother once gave him good advice about choosing friends. If you are spending time with people who you know are are doing things that are wrong. Just be careful. If your good habits rub off on them, awesome. You may be the only light they have in their life. But if you risk having their bad habits rub off on you then you need to be careful and may need to step back.
At any rate, everyone needs love and acceptance even people like me. I'll keep you in my prayers and I will always consider you a friend.
The more and more I read your blogs the more and more I want to point out that I think your biggest problem is that you have confused the culture of the church with the doctrine.
If you or your friends, including ATP and who else may be reading this reads this comment and if I can say one thing that you will take serious and ponder, I ask that you read this. I will repost it to my blog and I seriously would like to have comments on it. Please know that I'm am trying to write you with true love and reassurance. I feel I know your heart even if we don't see eye to eye.
A. The doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way that we will ever come to the Savior. It is true. It is THE ONLY way to gain exultation and salvation. The atonement is the key.
B. The Church of Jesus Christ is true. It is divinely led by inspiration. Christ is at the head of the Church. It is led on Earth by men who are inspired but who are also NOT perfect.
C. Mormonism is a culture. There are many good and wonderful things about this culture. But there are also many things that are dogmatic that aren't true. And yes a lot of the culture is at odds with the doctrine. You can be as good a Latter-day Saint living far off in the littlest branch with not the slightest bit of Mormon Culture. As long as you live the doctrine and keep the commandments.
There are three parts that I've spoken about. I want to make it clear. They are connected. But only the first is Eternal. The second will lead you to and keep you true to the first. The third is only a product of both, but in itself its worthless. That's why being culturally Mormon won't save you.
There are things that are true that are doctrine that to be honest are hard to accept because they go against our own personal desires and wants. There are things that we are ask to sacrifice in obiendence. There are things that we need to accept as true in faith. And there are things that aren't really that important.
There are things like Pres Monson said in the Priesthood session are like little strings that we carry in our pockets that will keep us from the things that are really important.
There are things that keep people from being friends that shouldn't. And yes there are people that if you listen to them will convince you that things that are true are false and that a key element of agency is the ability to choose without fear what is wicked and what will rob you of eternal blessing and that because we aren't to judge others we have a license to sin with out any consequences.
But there are also those who some would call monsters who are just wounded souls needing love and acceptance and tolerance. Most of all they need to feel like they are children of God and not spiritual orphans. I know I need to forgive some of those people who may have offended me as those who are simply lashing out because of hurt in their own lives.
I don't know what else I can say. I accept you as a friend and brother. It's up to you to accept me. I can't help what you think of me, but I have all the power over what I think about you.
I wish you would realize that the gospel is true. That the church needs people like you to help those who do struggle. You can be the most faithful member of the church. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between culture, dogma and true doctrine.
Keep the faith, pray, stay close to the Spirit. Reach out. A friend of mines mother once gave him good advice about choosing friends. If you are spending time with people who you know are are doing things that are wrong. Just be careful. If your good habits rub off on them, awesome. You may be the only light they have in their life. But if you risk having their bad habits rub off on you then you need to be careful and may need to step back.
At any rate, everyone needs love and acceptance even people like me. I'll keep you in my prayers and I will always consider you a friend.
Monday, September 3, 2007
Attacks from other bloggers
Wow, I must have pecked at a nerve. An entire blog dedicated to me!!! And there isn't any references to Crow excrement. I compliment you.
And of course its an open invitations for everyone else to add their pot shots. To attack the intolerant, to belittle the zealot with their smug sarcastic and enlightened statements that aren't clouded by the repressive influences of the church. So now that we are all in our respective corners with our dander up and ready to attack how should we proceed?
I love the way Zeal for the gospel is now a bad thing. And defending things that the church says will prevent us from progressing is now en vogue.
Okay, first of all. I'm really not sure why there is dissent. The church isn't forcing anyone to stick around if they don't want to. No one if forcing anyone to believe anything. That's why its called faith. That's why we need to use our agency to make a choice. We aren't hear following Saten's plan. Yes, if you want to be faithful to the church you do need "to be of one heart and one voice." Yes, it is possible to do this and retain your own sense of individuality.
That is what agency is all about. If you disagree or feel something is wrong, then please by all means develop a backbone and follow through with your beliefs. Stop wallowing in self loathing. If you choose to leave the church, that's your choice and we need to respect it, love you and accept you.
Of course those of us who do have testimonies will think you are making a eternally devastating mistake. If we love you and also believe in the church we would of course feel that way. Oh perhaps you need to walk way and lose it in order to realize what you do have and desire to get it back. Who knows. We don't receive revelation for you, your the only one that can do that. All I can do is pray for you and hold to what we believe is the gospel.
But please have respect for those of us who do want to stay and remain faithful and and leave the church alone.
Its ironic that the same person who who accuses me of "preaching" items that are not official stances of the church is the same person who rejected my friendship after I offered what I thought was a heartfelt and public apology and is now using my blogs or at least thats the implication in his comment here as one of his excuses to "go elsewhere." I really would like someone to clue me in what apostate doctrine I'm exposing. What untruths am I guilty of spreading.
Bloggers here can bash the prophet and his appearance on Larry King and other interview and attack leaders like Elder Bateman for his statements. They can tear apart and parody the Elder Oak's and Wickman Interview. They can offer their version of what the Church should say in their opinion since they seem to think they now receive inspirations to lead the church and guide those to go against those called to be Prophet, Seers and Revalators.
They can come right out and say that church leaders are wrong and then they can go off and say I'm somehow intolerant and closed minded because I have the nerve to stand up for things that I do consider sacred and that I clearly remember making a covenant not to be part of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed" and to stand up for the church when I encounter this. I'm a bad person for sticking to what I said I would do.
I've been told if you don't like what I've blogged don't read it. Well what's the point? Do you only blog so that those who agree with you can back you up? Are you saying you don't want dissent? Are you saying you want to crush anyone who has an opinion that goes against yours?
I posted today why I had taken a step back. Why I had stopped reading these blogs. I felt that was a peace offering and a move towards more tolerance on both parts. But apparently that's not how bloggers play. Today I let curiosity get the best of me and I returned. And what do I find and entire attack based on me. All I can say is wow, I'm flattered that I've had this kind of effect on everyone. I am sorry that the attacks have to continue. I guess being Christlike in the Moho community is another word for conditional love and acceptance.
I have found those who demand tolerance don't normally understand what it is to be tolerant. In fact they are normally the least tolerant ones out there. It's there way or no way, it's black and white. You are either with us or you're not. You don't have a right to an opinion if you disagree with us its because you are a ignorant bigot. Ironicly isn't that sorta what I'm accused of here? Seeing things as black and white?
If they can't debate in a civil and respectful way, they resort to petty insults and attacks. If they can't argue against the message their next move is to belittle the messenger. If they can make that person message appear tactless and simple-minded they can win by default or at least feel smug in that they have been attacked.
I'm sorry if I mistakenly believed that it was somehow admirable to stay faithful to the church. That my CTR ring meant choose the right. Apparently it means Choose the relative.
If I'm standing for what I believe, I honestly don't care if you tolerate or not tolerate me. Because I know whom I'm standing up for. If I'm bad for believing that I'm right then I suppose anyone who argues with me is also guilty of the same offense. I only worry about one judge.
I've heard so many people blog about being tolerant and Christlike. But apparently thats only reserved for those who go along with what is the group think here. Again more of what I'm being accused of.
That's one thing you can't accuse me of. I may disagree with you but I'd never openly attack you. I may defend myself as any human would who is attacked. I may disagree with you and tell you why. If you want to take it as an attack that's your issue. But I also would rather us work it out and be friends then continue to take pot shots at each other.
And of course its an open invitations for everyone else to add their pot shots. To attack the intolerant, to belittle the zealot with their smug sarcastic and enlightened statements that aren't clouded by the repressive influences of the church. So now that we are all in our respective corners with our dander up and ready to attack how should we proceed?
I love the way Zeal for the gospel is now a bad thing. And defending things that the church says will prevent us from progressing is now en vogue.
Okay, first of all. I'm really not sure why there is dissent. The church isn't forcing anyone to stick around if they don't want to. No one if forcing anyone to believe anything. That's why its called faith. That's why we need to use our agency to make a choice. We aren't hear following Saten's plan. Yes, if you want to be faithful to the church you do need "to be of one heart and one voice." Yes, it is possible to do this and retain your own sense of individuality.
That is what agency is all about. If you disagree or feel something is wrong, then please by all means develop a backbone and follow through with your beliefs. Stop wallowing in self loathing. If you choose to leave the church, that's your choice and we need to respect it, love you and accept you.
Of course those of us who do have testimonies will think you are making a eternally devastating mistake. If we love you and also believe in the church we would of course feel that way. Oh perhaps you need to walk way and lose it in order to realize what you do have and desire to get it back. Who knows. We don't receive revelation for you, your the only one that can do that. All I can do is pray for you and hold to what we believe is the gospel.
But please have respect for those of us who do want to stay and remain faithful and and leave the church alone.
Its ironic that the same person who who accuses me of "preaching" items that are not official stances of the church is the same person who rejected my friendship after I offered what I thought was a heartfelt and public apology and is now using my blogs or at least thats the implication in his comment here as one of his excuses to "go elsewhere." I really would like someone to clue me in what apostate doctrine I'm exposing. What untruths am I guilty of spreading.
Bloggers here can bash the prophet and his appearance on Larry King and other interview and attack leaders like Elder Bateman for his statements. They can tear apart and parody the Elder Oak's and Wickman Interview. They can offer their version of what the Church should say in their opinion since they seem to think they now receive inspirations to lead the church and guide those to go against those called to be Prophet, Seers and Revalators.
They can come right out and say that church leaders are wrong and then they can go off and say I'm somehow intolerant and closed minded because I have the nerve to stand up for things that I do consider sacred and that I clearly remember making a covenant not to be part of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed" and to stand up for the church when I encounter this. I'm a bad person for sticking to what I said I would do.
I've been told if you don't like what I've blogged don't read it. Well what's the point? Do you only blog so that those who agree with you can back you up? Are you saying you don't want dissent? Are you saying you want to crush anyone who has an opinion that goes against yours?
I posted today why I had taken a step back. Why I had stopped reading these blogs. I felt that was a peace offering and a move towards more tolerance on both parts. But apparently that's not how bloggers play. Today I let curiosity get the best of me and I returned. And what do I find and entire attack based on me. All I can say is wow, I'm flattered that I've had this kind of effect on everyone. I am sorry that the attacks have to continue. I guess being Christlike in the Moho community is another word for conditional love and acceptance.
I have found those who demand tolerance don't normally understand what it is to be tolerant. In fact they are normally the least tolerant ones out there. It's there way or no way, it's black and white. You are either with us or you're not. You don't have a right to an opinion if you disagree with us its because you are a ignorant bigot. Ironicly isn't that sorta what I'm accused of here? Seeing things as black and white?
If they can't debate in a civil and respectful way, they resort to petty insults and attacks. If they can't argue against the message their next move is to belittle the messenger. If they can make that person message appear tactless and simple-minded they can win by default or at least feel smug in that they have been attacked.
I'm sorry if I mistakenly believed that it was somehow admirable to stay faithful to the church. That my CTR ring meant choose the right. Apparently it means Choose the relative.
If I'm standing for what I believe, I honestly don't care if you tolerate or not tolerate me. Because I know whom I'm standing up for. If I'm bad for believing that I'm right then I suppose anyone who argues with me is also guilty of the same offense. I only worry about one judge.
I've heard so many people blog about being tolerant and Christlike. But apparently thats only reserved for those who go along with what is the group think here. Again more of what I'm being accused of.
That's one thing you can't accuse me of. I may disagree with you but I'd never openly attack you. I may defend myself as any human would who is attacked. I may disagree with you and tell you why. If you want to take it as an attack that's your issue. But I also would rather us work it out and be friends then continue to take pot shots at each other.
Sunday, September 2, 2007
His work and His Glory and My apology
I started blogging think it would be a good outlet for myself to express myself. Then I started venturing into other blogs, mostly those in the Northern Lights site. After a while I was finding it wasn't having a positive effect on me and all I was doing was contending and defending the faith so to speak against people who I would probably otherwise really like but who are struggling to find a way to be faithful and still feel they are themselves. What I'm posting today is mostly a letter in response to a friend who wrote a letter to leave the church after years of struggling.
I have stepped back a few weeks and not posted anything because to be honest I don't think contending with varying opinions what is true and what is false in regards to the gospel isn't helping any one, and if anything is only frustrating and causing further contention. I wasn't feeling the spirit, in fact I was just amazed how many people thought so many different things about something that we do have a clear standard of truth about.
My friend wrote:
....that my desire in life is not to gain the greatest blessing, but to serve God with all my heart, might, mind, and strength.....
I think what would make God the most happy and would lead to his own complete happiness is knowing that all his children want and accepts the greatest blessings that he has to offer, the way a parent wants their children to gain those things. Nothing I think causes him greater grief then when one of his children rejects his gifts.
His work and his Glory is to bring to pass the exhalation and eternal life of men. We say he's perfect in that he is complete, but I wonder if he ever will be completely until he has finished "His work and His glory."
I don't dispute personal revelation but i still maintain it is given to help us find our own individual way of gaining this glory that is his work.
And perhaps maybe some of us won't get married or be attracted to girls in this life. But is it worth canceling our blessing and our sealings to your parents and throwing away everything because we feel we can't accept a part of it. Our leaders are just teaching what they have been inspired to teach about what is "His work and His Glory."
Yes find other ways to serve him. Be faithful, do your best. Be open to change if it is to happen. Change isn't bad. Its how we grow. But I do know that we will be blessed as much for our effort as we are for our accomplishment. In the temple we are endowed that through our faithfulness we will be MADE worthy. Not by anything we can do alone. Like the atonement, we can't do it alone.
Last week we studied in Sunday school the Athens and how the philosophers spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing. (Acts 17:21) They turned to logic and what made sense to them. What they lost was the fact that they were "the offspring of God" and that as children of God their roles are the same as God. Paul taught them that when we understand God's nature we understand our own. Paul didn't try to reason with them, he just bore a powerful testimony of the Love of God. They felt it and while it didn't make sense or was logical, they felt it inside and were converted.
Just stay close to what you can. Be faithful to what you can. You don't have to go all or nothing now.
I know that for those of us struggling this is a lot like what Abraham had to endure when he was asked to offer up Issac. We are being ask to give something up that we feel is part of us, that we do love that we do feel is real. But I do have faith that if we do take our Issac's up to the alter that the Lord will provide us a lamb. Is it cruel of the Lord to test us this way? Well when compared to what he wants to reward us with maybe he has to in order to see if we are strong enough for what he wants to give us. Maybe thats the real reason we are being tested.
I'm sorry if I've ever said anything that upset you or anyone else here. I only did so in love and not to contend with you. I hope you understand that. If I really didn't care or thought you were pointless or not worthy of friendship I would have walked away. I know you are just trying to make since of something that doesn't make sense. I know cause I've been there to.
Sometimes I think we don't write what we want. We write what we feel and instead of reacting we need to listen. We need to listen between the lines and not react to the words. We need to react to the feeling and not to the thoughts. Sometimes we lash out when we are hurt and sometimes we do just need to love.
Sometimes its not a matter of being right or wrong. Its a matter of feeling loved and accepted. And loving and accepting those who do struggle with one thing or another. As a church and people I think we need to work on the second part of that much much more.
I have stepped back a few weeks and not posted anything because to be honest I don't think contending with varying opinions what is true and what is false in regards to the gospel isn't helping any one, and if anything is only frustrating and causing further contention. I wasn't feeling the spirit, in fact I was just amazed how many people thought so many different things about something that we do have a clear standard of truth about.
My friend wrote:
....that my desire in life is not to gain the greatest blessing, but to serve God with all my heart, might, mind, and strength.....
I think what would make God the most happy and would lead to his own complete happiness is knowing that all his children want and accepts the greatest blessings that he has to offer, the way a parent wants their children to gain those things. Nothing I think causes him greater grief then when one of his children rejects his gifts.
His work and his Glory is to bring to pass the exhalation and eternal life of men. We say he's perfect in that he is complete, but I wonder if he ever will be completely until he has finished "His work and His glory."
I don't dispute personal revelation but i still maintain it is given to help us find our own individual way of gaining this glory that is his work.
And perhaps maybe some of us won't get married or be attracted to girls in this life. But is it worth canceling our blessing and our sealings to your parents and throwing away everything because we feel we can't accept a part of it. Our leaders are just teaching what they have been inspired to teach about what is "His work and His Glory."
Yes find other ways to serve him. Be faithful, do your best. Be open to change if it is to happen. Change isn't bad. Its how we grow. But I do know that we will be blessed as much for our effort as we are for our accomplishment. In the temple we are endowed that through our faithfulness we will be MADE worthy. Not by anything we can do alone. Like the atonement, we can't do it alone.
Last week we studied in Sunday school the Athens and how the philosophers spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing. (Acts 17:21) They turned to logic and what made sense to them. What they lost was the fact that they were "the offspring of God" and that as children of God their roles are the same as God. Paul taught them that when we understand God's nature we understand our own. Paul didn't try to reason with them, he just bore a powerful testimony of the Love of God. They felt it and while it didn't make sense or was logical, they felt it inside and were converted.
Just stay close to what you can. Be faithful to what you can. You don't have to go all or nothing now.
I know that for those of us struggling this is a lot like what Abraham had to endure when he was asked to offer up Issac. We are being ask to give something up that we feel is part of us, that we do love that we do feel is real. But I do have faith that if we do take our Issac's up to the alter that the Lord will provide us a lamb. Is it cruel of the Lord to test us this way? Well when compared to what he wants to reward us with maybe he has to in order to see if we are strong enough for what he wants to give us. Maybe thats the real reason we are being tested.
I'm sorry if I've ever said anything that upset you or anyone else here. I only did so in love and not to contend with you. I hope you understand that. If I really didn't care or thought you were pointless or not worthy of friendship I would have walked away. I know you are just trying to make since of something that doesn't make sense. I know cause I've been there to.
Sometimes I think we don't write what we want. We write what we feel and instead of reacting we need to listen. We need to listen between the lines and not react to the words. We need to react to the feeling and not to the thoughts. Sometimes we lash out when we are hurt and sometimes we do just need to love.
Sometimes its not a matter of being right or wrong. Its a matter of feeling loved and accepted. And loving and accepting those who do struggle with one thing or another. As a church and people I think we need to work on the second part of that much much more.
Monday, August 20, 2007
The Lord knows his stuff, a Sunday Mircle
I had a really awesome expirence that I wanted to share with the group. This happened on Sunday.
A few weeks ago Evergeen sent out this notice about a new CD that they had put out and wanted to get all over the place. I thought about this and ordered four. One for myself and two for two friends and my bishop.
The thing was I wasn't really sure how to get it to my bishop or what kind of conversation I could come up with to broach the topic. He already know about me struggles. I was "outed" a two years ago when I had discovered a young man who was struggling and needed support. He was about to fall when I found him, he had got involved with the wrong yahoo group and had met some "affirming" friends.
Anyways in convincing him that he wasn't a sinner and it was the act and not the action, I also told him that if he had anything he needed to fix he should talk to his parents and bishop. He took my advice but at the same time he also told them about me. They panicked called the stake president about the "old internet stalker" and I got called into my bishops office. My bishop was loving and compassionate and soon found out that my intentions were pure and called the kids bishop and said that he was really upset with the things that the stake president had said they had said and that I was someone that could be trusted and that he trusted me and had already asked me to befriend several guys in the ward who were also having issues. He then told me to be careful, that he would defend me against any attacks and that he knew I was doing my best.
That was the last he said of it. That was two years ago. Anyways back to this Sunday. I was walking out of the chapel. The disks in my pocket when the executive secretary came over and said, "the bishop wants to talk to you."
I go in his office and he asks me to sit down and offer a prayer. I'm sorta scared at this point, it had taken me a very long year to convince him that I wasn't a good activities coordinator and I didn't want another go at it. I finish and he looks down on his papers and hand me this little blue booklet.
Yep, the new pamphlet. He then tells me that he thinks I may be the only one in the ward who really understands what these brothers and sisters are going through. Would I read it and meet with him and explain it to him. He thinks there are some needs in the ward and he wants to be able to understand. He said he prayed about this and felt like he should ask me to read it. I smiled at him and told him that I already had read it and had shared it with some friends and if he wanted an electronic version of it and the interview I could forward it to him. He said, "I thought you might already be up on this." Then he asked me if I knew of any other resources he could use.
WOW!!!! This was one of those air leaves the room moments. I must have given him the oddest look because he jumped back and then ask what was wrong. I smiled.
Okay, I've heard of God finding ways to bless you with what you want. But I've never had it happen this way before.
I said, "Yeah, actually I have a disk and a brochure I want to give you."
He thanked me and said he was going to read it. He said "you know I felt like you would have something for me." I was still almost at loss for words.
Oh yeah, the rest of the interview, I didn't get away without a new calling. He also asked me how the job search was going and if I needed some money. I told him well and no not yet. I left feeling really loved.
You know its great to know that the Lord really is in charge of His stuff. We may try to make it hard for ourselves, but it's times like this that I know he is really in charge and that I just have to have faith because as long as it's His will that is done all is well.
A few weeks ago Evergeen sent out this notice about a new CD that they had put out and wanted to get all over the place. I thought about this and ordered four. One for myself and two for two friends and my bishop.
The thing was I wasn't really sure how to get it to my bishop or what kind of conversation I could come up with to broach the topic. He already know about me struggles. I was "outed" a two years ago when I had discovered a young man who was struggling and needed support. He was about to fall when I found him, he had got involved with the wrong yahoo group and had met some "affirming" friends.
Anyways in convincing him that he wasn't a sinner and it was the act and not the action, I also told him that if he had anything he needed to fix he should talk to his parents and bishop. He took my advice but at the same time he also told them about me. They panicked called the stake president about the "old internet stalker" and I got called into my bishops office. My bishop was loving and compassionate and soon found out that my intentions were pure and called the kids bishop and said that he was really upset with the things that the stake president had said they had said and that I was someone that could be trusted and that he trusted me and had already asked me to befriend several guys in the ward who were also having issues. He then told me to be careful, that he would defend me against any attacks and that he knew I was doing my best.
That was the last he said of it. That was two years ago. Anyways back to this Sunday. I was walking out of the chapel. The disks in my pocket when the executive secretary came over and said, "the bishop wants to talk to you."
I go in his office and he asks me to sit down and offer a prayer. I'm sorta scared at this point, it had taken me a very long year to convince him that I wasn't a good activities coordinator and I didn't want another go at it. I finish and he looks down on his papers and hand me this little blue booklet.
Yep, the new pamphlet. He then tells me that he thinks I may be the only one in the ward who really understands what these brothers and sisters are going through. Would I read it and meet with him and explain it to him. He thinks there are some needs in the ward and he wants to be able to understand. He said he prayed about this and felt like he should ask me to read it. I smiled at him and told him that I already had read it and had shared it with some friends and if he wanted an electronic version of it and the interview I could forward it to him. He said, "I thought you might already be up on this." Then he asked me if I knew of any other resources he could use.
WOW!!!! This was one of those air leaves the room moments. I must have given him the oddest look because he jumped back and then ask what was wrong. I smiled.
Okay, I've heard of God finding ways to bless you with what you want. But I've never had it happen this way before.
I said, "Yeah, actually I have a disk and a brochure I want to give you."
He thanked me and said he was going to read it. He said "you know I felt like you would have something for me." I was still almost at loss for words.
Oh yeah, the rest of the interview, I didn't get away without a new calling. He also asked me how the job search was going and if I needed some money. I told him well and no not yet. I left feeling really loved.
You know its great to know that the Lord really is in charge of His stuff. We may try to make it hard for ourselves, but it's times like this that I know he is really in charge and that I just have to have faith because as long as it's His will that is done all is well.
Saturday, August 18, 2007
Short and simple and true
A friend of mine who isn't a member of the church sent this to me from his Bible Study Friday. I think its awesome.
"Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." Proverbs 27:5-6
Also, a quote from Paul Washer, "Your best friends are the ones that tell you the most truths." If your friend was heading off a cliff, would you tell them or would you simply just let them walk off...as long as it make them feel better. (THINK HOW WE DEFINE SUPPORT HERE)
How does your life compare to the Word of God? Your true friend don't let you keep sinning, (DO WE REJECT THEM BECAUSE WE FEEL THEY ARE JUDGING US) they tell you that you are doing wrong in the eyes of God, even though it might convict you and might make you feel bad about your life, (ISN'T THAT TRUE CHRISTLIKE LOVE TO LOVE SOMEONE MORE THEN TO CARE IF THEY "LIKE YOU") but it is better than just letting you live our life headed for eternal damnation.
"Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." Proverbs 27:5-6
Also, a quote from Paul Washer, "Your best friends are the ones that tell you the most truths." If your friend was heading off a cliff, would you tell them or would you simply just let them walk off...as long as it make them feel better. (THINK HOW WE DEFINE SUPPORT HERE)
How does your life compare to the Word of God? Your true friend don't let you keep sinning, (DO WE REJECT THEM BECAUSE WE FEEL THEY ARE JUDGING US) they tell you that you are doing wrong in the eyes of God, even though it might convict you and might make you feel bad about your life, (ISN'T THAT TRUE CHRISTLIKE LOVE TO LOVE SOMEONE MORE THEN TO CARE IF THEY "LIKE YOU") but it is better than just letting you live our life headed for eternal damnation.
Friday, August 17, 2007
Good Feelings vs. Personal Revelation
I'm kinda new to this whole blog thing, but there seems to be a trend surfacing in the church especially among the LDS SGA community. I've read a number of blogs that talk about the importance of personal revelation over what is taught by the Prophet and the apostles. In the past week I've been told by someone who I normally respect that "You need to step away from the church to find God." The past Prophets were wrong. I had one friend tell me that Pres Kimball admitted he was wrong about blacks and the priesthood. I went and read the 1978 section and it says nothing about being wrong, it says it wasn't until than the time. I've had another friend tell me that he has had a spiritual confirmation that that he is sure that trying to change would be an abomination before the Lord because this is how God created him.
I was talking to a friend who has left the church about this and he said he thinks this is just a case of cognitive dissonance to the max. I'm thinking of changing my blog title to that. Thank you Josh.
In all these cases I felt the pain and frustration that was leading to these statement. But after wiping my tears and thinking about how many times I wanted to believe everything they said the Spirit told me it simply wasn't true. I can't look or listen to the Prophet and not know with absolute assurance that he is THE Prophet. I can't hear him talk and not feel that in my heart.
It boil down to one very important concept. I think it is very important to distinguish the difference between feelings that make you feel good and relieve conflict and personal revelation from God.
I think that those of us who struggle with this often and sometimes give up hope. We feel that it is a losing battle. But we also know we are good and that God loves us. I think sometimes in desperation we choose a path that while it goes against what we may have been taught to believe, gives us some peace because it removes the inner conflict of having to repress what we want. To some degree this frees us from having to lie about what we want to others and ourselves and so we feel happy. At peace.
First off I'm not saying that I don't believe that a person can't receive Personal Revelations from God about how to deal with an issue. But I also think that these insights will help guide them to follow the established gospel plan not go off on their own. I think we need to be wary of those who begin to separate the church from God and the gospel from the plan of salvation. I think wanting to make some sense out of this struggle can often lead to some false notions that can than lead to some bad mistakes.
Some of us fall away other try to rewrite the gospel. But what it comes down to is faith. And the faith to act. It's pretty simple. We are literal offspring of God, heir to a kingdom. We are a princes, our father is a king and we are brothers. We do have everything we need to become like Him if we humble ourselves and put His desires first and follow His path. It is not up to us to choose another path, that is His job. He is God. He decides after we choose a path how we will spend eternity. Those of us who have been to the temple have been endowed with a power that through our faith will make us worthy to inherit these things. That's what the atonement is for. That is what we have been promised.
It comes down to what we know our purpose on earth is. Is it to live a life free of conflict? Pres Kimbell once said that if the Lord answered every prayer and took away every conflict it would shatter the whole purpose of our being sent here to learn and gain expirence. That would be Satan's plan, to give us the truth and force us to live it. God offers it to us and gives us agency to choose it or another path. He didn't give us the option to repave it for ourselves. Either its the truth or its not.
Yes we choose to act on our feeling. Our even not to act on them but to give up trying. Accept that we are gay. Decide it isn't a trial, its who we are. We can choose to live however makes us feel we are being true to ourself and think that if it makes us happy then it must be what God wants for us. I don't really see he wisdom of using "If it makes me happy" as a measurement of if it pleases God. I can see this becoming selfishness and used to justify anything.
This isn't just a little issue though. If we believe this then it does put our whole testimony at stake. If our bishop is wrong, if our stake president is wrong and if the GA and the Prophet is wrong then they have fallen into apostasy and are misleading the church on this issue. If this is true then the church isn't true and while it does teach us how to be good people, we could get that from any other church or even from just being a member of a service club. If this is true then gender isn't eternal, family's aren't essential to the plan of God, the temple is just a pointless and rituralistc exercise meant to indoctrinate the importance of strict obideance to a church and plan made by man. If this is the case then there has to be some eternal purpose for homosexuality, you had to have been gay in the preexistences and will be in the next. This cuts at the basic purpose of the church and as we believe the plan of salvation and if it is true what we have been taught is wrong for everyone because God is no respecter of persons either that or what is right for one person is wrong for another and we should all step away from the church to find God and to follow him in our own path and leave behind the church and its uniform plan.
I do think we need to be honest with ourselves.
The other thing that is beginning to bother me is blogging in general.
The problem I have with people who claim and hold to personal revelations that do fly in the face of those that are given by the Prophet is that I really do think that if the Prophet is the Prophet, than the Lord would reveal those things said to another individual to the Prophet because of his special calling. I don't think he would tell the Prophet one thing and that person something else and then let the two of them be in disharmony. I do think the Prophet would tell the stake presidents and bishops that the Lord has revealed to him that there are some exceptions and to tread lightly.
I also have issues with people who blog this stuff. If it is personal revelation and you are indeed an exception, then you need to keep it sacred to yourself so as not to "give false hope" to others who too also want to be an exception to the rule and stumble across your blog and find justification in their actions if the Lord has no intentions excluding them from the commandments he gives the rest of the church. I personally am beginning to think these blogs are a dangerous thing because I think a lot of false doctrine is being mingled with scripture and being passed off as the gospel. It's like my patriarchal blessing, its meant just for me. It wasn't meant to be given as revelation to anyone else or shared.
I wrote before about wolves in sheep's clothing but I also think we need to also be careful of those who have struggled and who out of desperation may have accepted things that aren't on course but who may be trying their best to make the best of a situation. We need to love them and stand by them but if we honestly feel they are wrong we need to be careful not to judge them but also not to say anything that may advocate we agree with them. We need to love and understand them and do our best to help them stay as close to the path as possible. We can do that without straying off of it ourselves.
I was talking to a friend who has left the church about this and he said he thinks this is just a case of cognitive dissonance to the max. I'm thinking of changing my blog title to that. Thank you Josh.
In all these cases I felt the pain and frustration that was leading to these statement. But after wiping my tears and thinking about how many times I wanted to believe everything they said the Spirit told me it simply wasn't true. I can't look or listen to the Prophet and not know with absolute assurance that he is THE Prophet. I can't hear him talk and not feel that in my heart.
It boil down to one very important concept. I think it is very important to distinguish the difference between feelings that make you feel good and relieve conflict and personal revelation from God.
I think that those of us who struggle with this often and sometimes give up hope. We feel that it is a losing battle. But we also know we are good and that God loves us. I think sometimes in desperation we choose a path that while it goes against what we may have been taught to believe, gives us some peace because it removes the inner conflict of having to repress what we want. To some degree this frees us from having to lie about what we want to others and ourselves and so we feel happy. At peace.
First off I'm not saying that I don't believe that a person can't receive Personal Revelations from God about how to deal with an issue. But I also think that these insights will help guide them to follow the established gospel plan not go off on their own. I think we need to be wary of those who begin to separate the church from God and the gospel from the plan of salvation. I think wanting to make some sense out of this struggle can often lead to some false notions that can than lead to some bad mistakes.
Some of us fall away other try to rewrite the gospel. But what it comes down to is faith. And the faith to act. It's pretty simple. We are literal offspring of God, heir to a kingdom. We are a princes, our father is a king and we are brothers. We do have everything we need to become like Him if we humble ourselves and put His desires first and follow His path. It is not up to us to choose another path, that is His job. He is God. He decides after we choose a path how we will spend eternity. Those of us who have been to the temple have been endowed with a power that through our faith will make us worthy to inherit these things. That's what the atonement is for. That is what we have been promised.
It comes down to what we know our purpose on earth is. Is it to live a life free of conflict? Pres Kimbell once said that if the Lord answered every prayer and took away every conflict it would shatter the whole purpose of our being sent here to learn and gain expirence. That would be Satan's plan, to give us the truth and force us to live it. God offers it to us and gives us agency to choose it or another path. He didn't give us the option to repave it for ourselves. Either its the truth or its not.
Yes we choose to act on our feeling. Our even not to act on them but to give up trying. Accept that we are gay. Decide it isn't a trial, its who we are. We can choose to live however makes us feel we are being true to ourself and think that if it makes us happy then it must be what God wants for us. I don't really see he wisdom of using "If it makes me happy" as a measurement of if it pleases God. I can see this becoming selfishness and used to justify anything.
This isn't just a little issue though. If we believe this then it does put our whole testimony at stake. If our bishop is wrong, if our stake president is wrong and if the GA and the Prophet is wrong then they have fallen into apostasy and are misleading the church on this issue. If this is true then the church isn't true and while it does teach us how to be good people, we could get that from any other church or even from just being a member of a service club. If this is true then gender isn't eternal, family's aren't essential to the plan of God, the temple is just a pointless and rituralistc exercise meant to indoctrinate the importance of strict obideance to a church and plan made by man. If this is the case then there has to be some eternal purpose for homosexuality, you had to have been gay in the preexistences and will be in the next. This cuts at the basic purpose of the church and as we believe the plan of salvation and if it is true what we have been taught is wrong for everyone because God is no respecter of persons either that or what is right for one person is wrong for another and we should all step away from the church to find God and to follow him in our own path and leave behind the church and its uniform plan.
I do think we need to be honest with ourselves.
The other thing that is beginning to bother me is blogging in general.
The problem I have with people who claim and hold to personal revelations that do fly in the face of those that are given by the Prophet is that I really do think that if the Prophet is the Prophet, than the Lord would reveal those things said to another individual to the Prophet because of his special calling. I don't think he would tell the Prophet one thing and that person something else and then let the two of them be in disharmony. I do think the Prophet would tell the stake presidents and bishops that the Lord has revealed to him that there are some exceptions and to tread lightly.
I also have issues with people who blog this stuff. If it is personal revelation and you are indeed an exception, then you need to keep it sacred to yourself so as not to "give false hope" to others who too also want to be an exception to the rule and stumble across your blog and find justification in their actions if the Lord has no intentions excluding them from the commandments he gives the rest of the church. I personally am beginning to think these blogs are a dangerous thing because I think a lot of false doctrine is being mingled with scripture and being passed off as the gospel. It's like my patriarchal blessing, its meant just for me. It wasn't meant to be given as revelation to anyone else or shared.
I wrote before about wolves in sheep's clothing but I also think we need to also be careful of those who have struggled and who out of desperation may have accepted things that aren't on course but who may be trying their best to make the best of a situation. We need to love them and stand by them but if we honestly feel they are wrong we need to be careful not to judge them but also not to say anything that may advocate we agree with them. We need to love and understand them and do our best to help them stay as close to the path as possible. We can do that without straying off of it ourselves.
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