I wrote this as a letter to a friend who was struggling with being faithful, fitting in and finding out that we are all, even Mormons human.
Brigham Young once said, “To dwell with the Saints in Zion, oh what a glory, to live with them on the Earth, that’s another story.”
I know how much it hurts when you are treated badly by people who know better. Not just “should know better.” I would think, as much time as we spend in sacrament and testimony meetings, tearfully testifying our love for everyone in the room that we really mean it. At times I think we say it not so much because we do love everyone, but because we are taught Christ loves everyone and since we are trying to be like Him, we also say we love everyone to feel like we are being like Him.
Nothing hurts more then when we go to Church, the one place where we should feel loved and accepted. And find we don’t. Even worse when we feel rejected because we struggle with something that makes us feel like we aren’t worthy and that something isn’t something we choose to feel. It hurts even worse when we find those who struggle reject us.
One thing Latter-day Saints have in common with the rest of the world is that we are human. In the context of the Church we have a culture fueled by the quest for perfection. In the gay culture perfection is also a goal. In the Church we try to be perfect, meaning complete. This is often misinterpreted as doing everything right and “looking good” while we do it. In the gay culture perfect means without blemish, young, and thin. One should be a refinement of spiritual things and the other is a standard based on worldly criteria. Both are concepts of perfection, and both really unreachable goals to some extent and both a harsh ruler to judge one self by.
I have also found that while a lot of LDS SGA guys may strive to “live the gospel” this often only translates to “not acting out” it doesn’t mean that they don’t avoid the traits or actions that are prevalent in the gay culture. It just means that they avoid going far enough that their actions are considered sins or simply put, that they have to see the bishop.
I also know that what determines if a guy is too needy or clingy most of the time has more to do with what the person who is the object of the attention feels about the person. If the guy who is trying to be friends is attractive then a lot of times this extra measure and desire for friendship is welcome. “Wow the cute guy who is struggling need my help and support.” However if the guy isn’t, they are often branded as being “too needy” or “two clingy.” It’s funny how a person’s worthiness of love or attention and even support can so easily be based on their appearance. I guess we can say jokingly ask “how gay is that?” But honestly, how gay IS that? When the cute guys fall we excuse them, and are ready to make concessions for them, its “he’s not a bad person, he’s just made a mistake.” If he isn’t attractive to us it becomes, “He’s crazy stalker.”
Being one of those guys who fall into the less then perfect category, I’ve felt this kind of judgment first hand at LDS gatherings. I’ve felt ignored and sometimes worse included only because someone its “trying to be Christlike” to me by including me in their otherwise very select group. And when I tried to move further along or form some real friendships it was quickly made clear to me that I was overstepping the kindness being granted to me by those who deemed themselves more worthy then me because of their perceptions of me. And yes you don’t find out about this directly, you read about it in a blog or you call a number given to you that turn out to be a fake one. Or someone accidentally lets it slip what someone really thinks about you or a friend just stops talking to you when they find out another more attractive friend of theirs sees you as less than worthy.
But I’ve also have had to come to the conclusion that I can’t confuse feeling accepted by members of the Church with me being accepted by God. The gospel is true. The church is true. Jesus is the Christ and he won’t reject me and he doesn’t care what I look like.
Brandon, the plain truth here is simple. If you read anything in this post read and remember this. His atonement is as effective for me at 260 pounds as it is for the cute guy with the faux hock and Hollister hoodie. God loves you as much as he does the guy with the blonde highlights and the A&F t-shirt. He listens to your prayers as much as he does anyone else even if you don’t go to the gym everyday.
It’s hard because yes, we all wanted to be loved and needed. We all want to be desirable. And yes we all are trying to be faithful and none of us want to think we are motivated by anything other then pure intentions when it comes to our interactions with others BUT we are all guilty of it. There are times when I found myself not happy with the friends I did have who did like me and wanted to know why those other guys don’t like me. In so doing I forgot the ones who did. There are people who no matter how hard we try do annoy us. And there are people that no matter how much we try we may not really care for. Do I think that we are better people if we try to work through those feelings to find good in them? Yes. But I think for the most part, we need to first find the better part of ourselves before we try to do that in others because the way we treat people and who we accept is a reflection of what we often desire for ourselves.
But regardless of how others may or may not accept us has nothing to do with the Church being true. Its more a matter of us being true to the things the Church has taught us. Its like a math problem, the answer is the same and correct but those doing it may be doing the math wrong. It doesn’t change the answer or make it incorrect. Remember that.
Some of these issues are issues that others may have that are really symptoms of their own struggles, they may crave being accepted by others who make them feel loved because they are “normal” or they “fit it.” Some crave having “attractive” people around them because they feel insecure if they don’t. They want to feel pretty and lets face it “pretty is as pretty does.” Just love and forgive. But if you do choose to love and forgive. Love for real and forgive for real. Don’t just do it to be like Jesus, do it because you do love them and you do forgive them otherwise its just as fake and phony.
There has been some good advice posted here by other people as well. Consider it, ponder it, and pray about it. In the end the only person you will ever need to be accepted by already accepts you. Now its just a matter of showing your love to him by being obedient to him and his commandments and yes forgiving those people. Never ever let those who should know better be the ones who help you determine how you spend the eternities by leaving because they don’t accept you. Don’t give them that kind of power over you. Shine on, be yourself and be who you are. Your real friends will see it and love you for it and you won’t have to be anything but who you really are. Just be you.
Monday, January 21, 2008
Saturday, December 15, 2007
Reflections on The Prodigal Son
I think that the wonderful thing about parables and why they are such great teaching tools are that they can apply at several different levels. "The Prodigal Son" is one of those examples.
In talking about this I'm referring to the scripture (Luke 11-32) and not the movie, which is a good variation, even if I still get irritated with the wife every time I watch it. I know she is right, but she could be more compassionate her own self, (but that's a whole other story.) This is a reference to a movie the church once made.
I think the important thing to remember is that while the story talks of hope, redemption and love, it also talks about the importance of being diligent, obedient and faithful.
When the second son took his portion early on and took it with him into the world and ended up hanging with swine,"(V:13), I think what Christ is referring to is to those who have the gospel and the knowledge given to them without much work on their own, i.e. "goods that falleth to me," and who then take what they have and go out and live like the rest of the world does.
I think this has a lot to do with our own personal conversions. Yes, some of us can be born in the church, even go on a mission and still not really understand it enough to realize that it's not a treasure unless we apply it to our lives.
I also think that part of the redemption aspect is that they know that they can come back and fix things if they desire to.(v.17 and 18) I truly feel that those people who truly have and understand the gospel, even if they are tempted, won't because they understand what they have. That doesn't mean they aren't tempted and that they don't sometimes make mistakes.
It is interesting to point out that when the son goes to the world for help after he starts to want (v. 14) the world doesn't help him, they send him to the fields to dwell with swine (v. 15) this could very well tell us what the value the real world places on us and make us think twice about wanting to be part of it. How much of this is seen in the world, once someone has fallen out of what is considered to be what is "in" at the time.
As for a second class reward. Remember that what the two sons started with are portions. Not rewards.
They had to do something with what they had to make it a reward. I think that part of the reward for obedience early on is that you don't have to go through all the "swine" parts to find out that what you had is really your treasure that you squandered if you did hang with pigs so to speak. And please don't take this to be a judgment of pigs, we are all sinners, but in avoiding sin sometimes it's important to avoid those who would encourage us to sin.
The treasure is only treasure if it's applied to our life. The gospel doesn't mean anything if it's knowledge that isn't acted on. That doesn't mean you won't be rewarded if you come back, but it also doesn't mean you won't have to accept that you also lost something as a result of your decisions. (V. 17) And the fatted calf can go about it's life and not killed. I think the poor bovine is the real victim in this tale.
When the other son came back and saw what was going on his pride overcame him as it does with a lot of people including myself at times. Sometimes I think this is natural frustration because its like having to watch someone you love suffer needlessly because they know the truth but don't want to accept it. That too is pride. You know the whole, "You have no right to judge me," mentality. I think that's has to be one of the most often over used scriptures and misunderstood scriptures, what I think is really amusing and yes, tragic, is the next part about "go and sin no more is never remembered by the one using it to defend their actions.
Sometimes when a person is trying it is viewed by those who are aren't as self rightness, because I think they resent the fact that they see happiness. But yes, I also think the older brother indignation gets the best of him and yes, a sin on the older brothers part, but lets have a little compassion for him also. He is trying.
I think what the father meant when he told the other son that "Son, thu art ever with me, and all that I have is thine," (v.31) means that he will earn his reward for "Sticking to it." Also that he already understands that his reward is that he didn't have to learn it the hard way. Meaning that yes, their are greater rewards for obedience, just as there are different levels in the kingdom of God. It doesn't mean God loves someone less, but we get what we deserve.
And yes sometimes that means while we are "out wasting our substance with riotous living," (V. 13) and then discover the world is actually in some kind of feminine (14)or moral decay and the goods part of the returning process is the revelation that we had are what protects us from having to suffer through this to begin with. I think this is why we have agency. The tragic part is when someone who has this gift don't realize that the gift is that he doesn't has to go suffer through life on his own and if he really understood it that in living the gospel, he will be happy instead of trying to make his own happiness and finding self produced happiness to really be of little real value, "And he would fain to fill his belly with the husks that the swine did eat." (V. 16.)
I do believe we have to learn things on our own in order for it to mean something to us. And maybe the years in the world can do this, but I think it is also far better to not have to go through this by "Sticking to it" to begin with. One of the first sons rewards was that he didn't have to go through the process of losing something in order to discover he had it to begin with and who knows what kinds of opportunities were lost during the second sons adventures in riotous living.
If this is the case in someones life, I hope that they will use this lesson and realize that they need the gospel and come back to it before it's too late.
Yes, the father was overjoyed that his other son had come home, enough to kill the calf and throw a party complete with "musick and neck kissing," just as Heavenly Father rejoices when one of us returns to the fold so to speak. But I think he is even more happy when we don't leave to begin with.
I think the problem is that sometimes we look at parables for more then what they are. They aren't the complete picture, I think they also are adaptable to a lot of situations and sometimes when certain parts are emphasized over other parts they may be used to emphasize something that really isn't there. I don't think this parable means that sinners who repent are going to get a second class reward any more then it means that sinners who repent will get the same as those who never sin to begin with. This is a story about how a father is happy when his son returns and how he welcomes him back and celebrates his return. Both sons started with the same reward, it was up to the individuals to decide what to do with it in order for it to become anything. God is just happy when we are near him.
I do think we have to admit to ourselves if we do wrong that, yes, because of what we do we may not deserve "All that is thine," but maybe we aren't ready for it and haven't spent our whole life preparing for it by by being "forever with me."
The key though is that the atonement makes up for a lot of mistakes when we accept it. We are all saved so to speak, that's mercy. Our actions dictate what happens after that, that's justice.
Everything we need to return to our Father is found within and living the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I think it's just a matter of accepting and living it.
In talking about this I'm referring to the scripture (Luke 11-32) and not the movie, which is a good variation, even if I still get irritated with the wife every time I watch it. I know she is right, but she could be more compassionate her own self, (but that's a whole other story.) This is a reference to a movie the church once made.
I think the important thing to remember is that while the story talks of hope, redemption and love, it also talks about the importance of being diligent, obedient and faithful.
When the second son took his portion early on and took it with him into the world and ended up hanging with swine,"(V:13), I think what Christ is referring to is to those who have the gospel and the knowledge given to them without much work on their own, i.e. "goods that falleth to me," and who then take what they have and go out and live like the rest of the world does.
I think this has a lot to do with our own personal conversions. Yes, some of us can be born in the church, even go on a mission and still not really understand it enough to realize that it's not a treasure unless we apply it to our lives.
I also think that part of the redemption aspect is that they know that they can come back and fix things if they desire to.(v.17 and 18) I truly feel that those people who truly have and understand the gospel, even if they are tempted, won't because they understand what they have. That doesn't mean they aren't tempted and that they don't sometimes make mistakes.
It is interesting to point out that when the son goes to the world for help after he starts to want (v. 14) the world doesn't help him, they send him to the fields to dwell with swine (v. 15) this could very well tell us what the value the real world places on us and make us think twice about wanting to be part of it. How much of this is seen in the world, once someone has fallen out of what is considered to be what is "in" at the time.
As for a second class reward. Remember that what the two sons started with are portions. Not rewards.
They had to do something with what they had to make it a reward. I think that part of the reward for obedience early on is that you don't have to go through all the "swine" parts to find out that what you had is really your treasure that you squandered if you did hang with pigs so to speak. And please don't take this to be a judgment of pigs, we are all sinners, but in avoiding sin sometimes it's important to avoid those who would encourage us to sin.
The treasure is only treasure if it's applied to our life. The gospel doesn't mean anything if it's knowledge that isn't acted on. That doesn't mean you won't be rewarded if you come back, but it also doesn't mean you won't have to accept that you also lost something as a result of your decisions. (V. 17) And the fatted calf can go about it's life and not killed. I think the poor bovine is the real victim in this tale.
When the other son came back and saw what was going on his pride overcame him as it does with a lot of people including myself at times. Sometimes I think this is natural frustration because its like having to watch someone you love suffer needlessly because they know the truth but don't want to accept it. That too is pride. You know the whole, "You have no right to judge me," mentality. I think that's has to be one of the most often over used scriptures and misunderstood scriptures, what I think is really amusing and yes, tragic, is the next part about "go and sin no more is never remembered by the one using it to defend their actions.
Sometimes when a person is trying it is viewed by those who are aren't as self rightness, because I think they resent the fact that they see happiness. But yes, I also think the older brother indignation gets the best of him and yes, a sin on the older brothers part, but lets have a little compassion for him also. He is trying.
I think what the father meant when he told the other son that "Son, thu art ever with me, and all that I have is thine," (v.31) means that he will earn his reward for "Sticking to it." Also that he already understands that his reward is that he didn't have to learn it the hard way. Meaning that yes, their are greater rewards for obedience, just as there are different levels in the kingdom of God. It doesn't mean God loves someone less, but we get what we deserve.
And yes sometimes that means while we are "out wasting our substance with riotous living," (V. 13) and then discover the world is actually in some kind of feminine (14)or moral decay and the goods part of the returning process is the revelation that we had are what protects us from having to suffer through this to begin with. I think this is why we have agency. The tragic part is when someone who has this gift don't realize that the gift is that he doesn't has to go suffer through life on his own and if he really understood it that in living the gospel, he will be happy instead of trying to make his own happiness and finding self produced happiness to really be of little real value, "And he would fain to fill his belly with the husks that the swine did eat." (V. 16.)
I do believe we have to learn things on our own in order for it to mean something to us. And maybe the years in the world can do this, but I think it is also far better to not have to go through this by "Sticking to it" to begin with. One of the first sons rewards was that he didn't have to go through the process of losing something in order to discover he had it to begin with and who knows what kinds of opportunities were lost during the second sons adventures in riotous living.
If this is the case in someones life, I hope that they will use this lesson and realize that they need the gospel and come back to it before it's too late.
Yes, the father was overjoyed that his other son had come home, enough to kill the calf and throw a party complete with "musick and neck kissing," just as Heavenly Father rejoices when one of us returns to the fold so to speak. But I think he is even more happy when we don't leave to begin with.
I think the problem is that sometimes we look at parables for more then what they are. They aren't the complete picture, I think they also are adaptable to a lot of situations and sometimes when certain parts are emphasized over other parts they may be used to emphasize something that really isn't there. I don't think this parable means that sinners who repent are going to get a second class reward any more then it means that sinners who repent will get the same as those who never sin to begin with. This is a story about how a father is happy when his son returns and how he welcomes him back and celebrates his return. Both sons started with the same reward, it was up to the individuals to decide what to do with it in order for it to become anything. God is just happy when we are near him.
I do think we have to admit to ourselves if we do wrong that, yes, because of what we do we may not deserve "All that is thine," but maybe we aren't ready for it and haven't spent our whole life preparing for it by by being "forever with me."
The key though is that the atonement makes up for a lot of mistakes when we accept it. We are all saved so to speak, that's mercy. Our actions dictate what happens after that, that's justice.
Everything we need to return to our Father is found within and living the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I think it's just a matter of accepting and living it.
Tuesday, November 27, 2007
Because we are the only ones who will listen
Sunday a friend came over to my house and we begin the process of Christamtizing the home. You know decking the halls and all that fun stuff. Before he arrived I had been writing the missionaries and listening to BYUTV. They are doing a serious on the "9 Be's" and they we're highlighting be clean. I only remember 6 b's but I guess somewhere along the line the prophet found 3 more, Most of the talks were pretty much the same. One touched me, in what was said that was different. But that’s another post.
So as we sat there on the floor, surrounded by pine needles, garland, various manager scene pieces and Santa’s. We half listened to the speakers and talked about church.
My friend is aware of my struggles, he doesn’t struggle with the things I do, but he has his own issues. Ironically he asked me the first day we met if I was gay. I was taken aback by this and asked him how he knew, and he said, "well it not because of anything like your mannerisms or anything like that, its just this feeling I had."
He opened up to me and told me about his struggles. It was interesting because what he struggles with is something I think we all do. I just didn't know it had a name. It too is an item for a future post.
So anyways we listened to one of the apostle speak about the law of chastity and my friend finally just sorta snapped.
"You know I don't need to hear that," he said. "And yeah I know what you are thinking, you are thinking that I must have a problem with it and that it’s hard for me to hear it. But that's not what I'm saying. The problem is that I don't have a problem with it. But it’s the only thing they ever say. I go to church; I hear the same stuff over and over, now what? I know this stuff. I obey this stuff. I don't need to hear this. What I need to hear is more, more about what I need to do now."
I sat back and looked at him. True to my LDS upbringing I said. "Have you talked to you bishop about this" of course it was a dumb, knee jerk reaction.
"Oh yeah, that’s why I was late." he said. "Of course he said it was some sort of spiritual handicap of mine. That the teachers and leaders are all inspired and teaching what they need to teach and if I'm not feeling the spirit its because I'm not intune to it," he said. "Dude, I read my scriptures, I pray, I serve I do all those things. I don't have a problem with these things. I pay my tithing. I go to church. Now what?"
I looked at him and said, "I understand." We started talking about how the church handles the who SGA issues. I had given him a copy of the new pamphlets. He read it, we both agreed that it was awesome. We started talking about the way it had been dealt with in the past, I went and found my copy of "To the One" and read what at the time Elder Packer had wrote. I told him that I knew that Packer was inspired to write it, and at the same time I knew we had to think about the time period it was delivered in and the spirit it was delivered in. I also told him that I had many friends who had been hurt by what it said about selfishness and all that. But that I think that our leaders are trying and honestly they want us to avoid and not get involved in what is a sin, or what would even lead us to question what is sin, rather we understand the cause of it. The final answer is that it is a sin and that's it. But that doesn’t always help make it easier.
He asked me how I did it. How I stay faithful. How I deal with it knowing that how I feel and want isn't always in tune with what I want so badly. Not so much my lusts, but my desires to be loved and share love in a way that isn't "work" or feeling like I'm sacrificing what I want for what someone, even if that someone is God, wants for me and only having his promise that in the end I'll be happy.
I told him about these groups, and blogs and the whole "moho" thing and that I know that I'm not always well liked for advocating being faithful and stuff and that I've actually lost friends over this and am seen as somewhat of an overzealous preachy guy. But that if the church is true, than everything about it is true. I can't follow a version of it, or an altered liberal version of it. I've been to the temple; I've made promises and covenants to the Lord and now its up to me to keep those. Some may find this being over zealous, but I what if God blessed us according to our zeal? If this leaves me friendless then so be it. I try to be the type of friend who is honest and who does stand for what is right. What if a friend started drinking poison, would we not tell him because we didn’t want to offend him? Maybe this isn’t what those who struggle want as support but it’s what they need, but it often just makes them feel preached to and I end up getting rejected. I told him that I think maybe that’s why he feels the way he does. But that I also understand how he feels.
There are times I feel the same way, like “Okay God, I’m doing what you asked, now what, why don’t people like me, where is the happy ending that comes at the end of the seminary movie? When is that check going to appear in the mail? When am I going to be respected for what I do? I’ve shown Christlike love, when will I feel it from others?” I don’t think me feeling this way is a lack of faith on my part.
We sat and listened some more. Honestly I wanted to change the channel to “Desperate Housewives,” the mood had turned from holiday festive to "endure to the end gloom."
He finally looked up to me and said something. "You know how the year before we were asked to all read the Book of Mormon?"
I said yes.
"I was already reading it, then I suddenly felt guilty for not reading it fast enough to get to the end of it by the end of the year," he said. "It's like when the stake pres gets a lecture from a GA about Sacrament meeting attendance and so he speaks to all the wards about the importance of attending church. The problem is that these are the ones who are attending church; these are the ones who are already reading the Book of Mormon. But these are the same ones who will now bare the brunt of all the guilt in the church for not doing it."
I looked at him, and nodded. "So why are they being so hard on the ones who are doing what they are asking us to do?" he asked.
"Because,"I said. "We are the only ones who will listen to them."
We both smiled and started to laugh. The mood lightend. We needed that. Things started to make a lot more sense than.
So as we sat there on the floor, surrounded by pine needles, garland, various manager scene pieces and Santa’s. We half listened to the speakers and talked about church.
My friend is aware of my struggles, he doesn’t struggle with the things I do, but he has his own issues. Ironically he asked me the first day we met if I was gay. I was taken aback by this and asked him how he knew, and he said, "well it not because of anything like your mannerisms or anything like that, its just this feeling I had."
He opened up to me and told me about his struggles. It was interesting because what he struggles with is something I think we all do. I just didn't know it had a name. It too is an item for a future post.
So anyways we listened to one of the apostle speak about the law of chastity and my friend finally just sorta snapped.
"You know I don't need to hear that," he said. "And yeah I know what you are thinking, you are thinking that I must have a problem with it and that it’s hard for me to hear it. But that's not what I'm saying. The problem is that I don't have a problem with it. But it’s the only thing they ever say. I go to church; I hear the same stuff over and over, now what? I know this stuff. I obey this stuff. I don't need to hear this. What I need to hear is more, more about what I need to do now."
I sat back and looked at him. True to my LDS upbringing I said. "Have you talked to you bishop about this" of course it was a dumb, knee jerk reaction.
"Oh yeah, that’s why I was late." he said. "Of course he said it was some sort of spiritual handicap of mine. That the teachers and leaders are all inspired and teaching what they need to teach and if I'm not feeling the spirit its because I'm not intune to it," he said. "Dude, I read my scriptures, I pray, I serve I do all those things. I don't have a problem with these things. I pay my tithing. I go to church. Now what?"
I looked at him and said, "I understand." We started talking about how the church handles the who SGA issues. I had given him a copy of the new pamphlets. He read it, we both agreed that it was awesome. We started talking about the way it had been dealt with in the past, I went and found my copy of "To the One" and read what at the time Elder Packer had wrote. I told him that I knew that Packer was inspired to write it, and at the same time I knew we had to think about the time period it was delivered in and the spirit it was delivered in. I also told him that I had many friends who had been hurt by what it said about selfishness and all that. But that I think that our leaders are trying and honestly they want us to avoid and not get involved in what is a sin, or what would even lead us to question what is sin, rather we understand the cause of it. The final answer is that it is a sin and that's it. But that doesn’t always help make it easier.
He asked me how I did it. How I stay faithful. How I deal with it knowing that how I feel and want isn't always in tune with what I want so badly. Not so much my lusts, but my desires to be loved and share love in a way that isn't "work" or feeling like I'm sacrificing what I want for what someone, even if that someone is God, wants for me and only having his promise that in the end I'll be happy.
I told him about these groups, and blogs and the whole "moho" thing and that I know that I'm not always well liked for advocating being faithful and stuff and that I've actually lost friends over this and am seen as somewhat of an overzealous preachy guy. But that if the church is true, than everything about it is true. I can't follow a version of it, or an altered liberal version of it. I've been to the temple; I've made promises and covenants to the Lord and now its up to me to keep those. Some may find this being over zealous, but I what if God blessed us according to our zeal? If this leaves me friendless then so be it. I try to be the type of friend who is honest and who does stand for what is right. What if a friend started drinking poison, would we not tell him because we didn’t want to offend him? Maybe this isn’t what those who struggle want as support but it’s what they need, but it often just makes them feel preached to and I end up getting rejected. I told him that I think maybe that’s why he feels the way he does. But that I also understand how he feels.
There are times I feel the same way, like “Okay God, I’m doing what you asked, now what, why don’t people like me, where is the happy ending that comes at the end of the seminary movie? When is that check going to appear in the mail? When am I going to be respected for what I do? I’ve shown Christlike love, when will I feel it from others?” I don’t think me feeling this way is a lack of faith on my part.
We sat and listened some more. Honestly I wanted to change the channel to “Desperate Housewives,” the mood had turned from holiday festive to "endure to the end gloom."
He finally looked up to me and said something. "You know how the year before we were asked to all read the Book of Mormon?"
I said yes.
"I was already reading it, then I suddenly felt guilty for not reading it fast enough to get to the end of it by the end of the year," he said. "It's like when the stake pres gets a lecture from a GA about Sacrament meeting attendance and so he speaks to all the wards about the importance of attending church. The problem is that these are the ones who are attending church; these are the ones who are already reading the Book of Mormon. But these are the same ones who will now bare the brunt of all the guilt in the church for not doing it."
I looked at him, and nodded. "So why are they being so hard on the ones who are doing what they are asking us to do?" he asked.
"Because,"I said. "We are the only ones who will listen to them."
We both smiled and started to laugh. The mood lightend. We needed that. Things started to make a lot more sense than.
Wednesday, October 10, 2007
My new intro
I thought I'd write a new introduction. I've sorta outgrown the last one. And so in an attempt to get to know people better here goes. It's a bit long, but I wanted to touch on a few things and hopefully foster some understanding and if I needed to clear anything up maybe this will help.
I'm 34, an RM and live in Northern California. I have a testimony of the Savior, the Prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, the church and the Prophet.
I'm also attracted to guys.
I know how hard it is to believe something and to feel something else. The contradiction is painful. I think that it's healthy to be honest with yourself, it's the first step in trying to face it and overcome it. And yes, I said overcome it. That doesn't mean deny it or pretend it doesn't exist, it means "I choose to act not be acted on." I believe that my struggle is part of the "natural man" and I need to overcome the desires to live by the flesh and my lusts and live the way God wants me to live. That also means feel love the way God wants me to love. I also know God gave me this struggle to test and refine me, I know in Mormon culture we like to call our struggles gifts, but I do think it is a tool to teach me and to give me things I need to have to become who I am to become. I also know I need to acknowledge the way I feel as real.
I know so many guys who repress it and when they finally do cave, it turns them into really mean people who end up bitter, cynical and sarcastic towards the Church, God and anyone who is trying to be faithful to it or who may in their attempts to be faithful make them feel guilty.
I am so grateful to Elder Oaks for making it clear that I am not to use my feelings or attractions to define who I am and that it is my actions not my feelings that I am accountable for. I am not really out. I mean I've talked to my bishop. I've never really told my parents. I tell people who I think need to know. But I don't see it as being something that I need to "come out proud" about. That's a worldly concept. I am who I am, I am me first and foremost.
As for me personally, I've been to the temple and I've taken covenants that "I won't have sexual relations (notice the word relations and not sex, I believe that means things like making out, kissing and whatnot), with anyone expect with the person I'm married to." And so the bottom line is at least in this respect, I know what God's eternal purpose is for me and I can't reach that in a homosexual relationship. It's really that plain and simple. I can fight against the pricks so to speak and drag my feet and cry about how unfair it is. I can curse God and try to come up with reasons why I am the exceptions to the rules. But if the church is true and that is the doctrine, then I have to accept it if I want to be faithful. God is no respecter of persons and he doesn't give Personal Revelation that would counter what we know is true. I know he can give us revelations to help us individually be faithful and that isn't always the same as he would give
others but its always about how we can stay on the right path. Its more like a GPS system then being given a different map altogether.
Now having said that, I do believe that there can be real love between two guys. It just can't be eternal as much as I want it to be, or hope it could be. If what I believe is true it will have great eternal consequences. This is the hard part because I know that love can be just as real right now and that love can trap someone into not wanting to accept the truth and keep them bound to something that will eventually have devastating effects on their eternal lives.
At times I've thought I could make a compromise with God, if I could be with a man I love, I'd forgo sex and just live with him monogamously, coupled but celibate. And at times I've also wondered how God can keep his promise to me that if I'm faithful I can marry someone I love when I've never liked girls. And yes I've used "attraction" as an excuse not to pursue dating saying that "it's unfair to the girl." But I've also come to realize those aren't the real reasons. They are good excuses that make me feel better about not doing what I know I should. Because while I say I want to, I really don't and it really does come down to what I want and what I'm willing to do. I can believe God or my own doubts. Both are powerful forces.
These are hard questions for me and while I don't know the hows, I believe I know the answers, it comes in being faithful and following the Prophet. Its just hard to follow the Prophet sometimes when you feel like the answers are general and don't take how you feel into consideration. But then I also have to hold onto the fact that as far as Christs atonement is concerned, the pain He felt was very personal. He not only suffered for my sins but He also suffered and endured my pain so He knows how I feel. So if His servants give me a commandment from Him, while that servant may not fully understand it or give it with the verbiage that I feel shows understanding, I have to have faith in who his master is and that He loves me and understands me.
I've been "the only" for a long time. Growing up in the church in a small town meant facing being the only LDS guy at school and being judged according to those standards. Then add feeling like I was t"he only" one at Church who was different. I've never felt like I've fit in. And of course growing up in the Church being "gay" was a sin. No one ever told me that I could have those feelings and it wasn't my fault. It wasn't taught but it was implied that "I choose to feel this way" I knew I didn't, so I felt as if I was some sort of mistake. I went on a mission, and developed a strong testimony, but I cam home still attracted to guys. But all of this has made me stronger.
It also has unfortunately at times made me very head strong. I've joined some of the "moho" groups, again I use that term only for clarity, I think its a bad term which turns us into "ites." Personally, I reject a lot of the ideas that come from this community. We are all flawed people. These flaws are tools that God uses to teach us. I think a lot of the new philosophies out there serve to make us feel unbroken and fixed. As if there is really nothing wrong with us. That we need to "accept ourselves as we are if we are to be happy" and that change isn't possible and even a sin to consider. While I'll agree that change means more of a change of heart then change of feeling, I believe it means humbling ourselves to His will and not insist on Him accepting ours and then trying to mold the gospel around it. I believe that in order to be true disciples we have to mold our will around His. We are ALL broken and need fixing. That's what the atonement of
Jesus Christ is all about. That's the whole point of mortality. To overcome those things that do hold us back.
I think sticking to these ideas have led in part to me failing in my attempts to make friends because I can come off as preachy or over zealous or clingy or whatever emotional issue people want to use to make themselves feel better about judging me and distancing themselves from me.
And, YES I WRITE LONG POSTS!!!
I've tried reaching out to some in the LDS gay or SGA community and have found that to be honest with you those who are struggling can be just as mean and hateful as anyone in the gay community. But I also need to accept that a lot of it comes as a self defense mechanism. Its a product of self loathing and double life they are trying to lead. They don't want to feel bad, they want support. I may remind them of something they see in themselves that makes them feel unconformable or I remind them of something they want to block out. But support needs to hold up not justify or enable. They can also be just as judgmental about things like a persons age and physical appearances. If I am saying some harsh things, remember these are based on my own personal experiences.
And yes, while I know this may be making an unfair "generalization" I think there is some truth to it. I can't really "gay it up" at Gossip or some other gay club or bar on Saturday and than pass the Sacrament on Sunday, as if I'm visiting Sodom on a day pass. I can't than get mad at someone and call them judgmental who may point out the inconsistency. I can't use the "the Savior said not to judge me" card knowing that he also said "go and sin no more." BUT and I admit, I'm also very good at graying the area and saying "I just go to be with my friends and dance" but I know the other reason is that in some ways I crave being in an environment where I can let my hair down, "be who I want to be right now" and forget who "I'm trying to be," I can be "myself." These places normalize what I know is a sin but wish I could partake in without sinning. But I also know that the Sprint is miles away from those places.
Its hard when you don't fit in into either camp. And ironically some of my closet friends, those who have encouraged me to stay faithful have been LDS guys who are in gay relationships. I don't really know how to explain this other then to say that while I do believe what they are doing is wrong, they are living with honesty and not living double lives or trying to hide stuff. I also think deep down they know what they have given up and they don't want to see someone else go that path. I've also realized that these guys, while inactive aren't bitter or hateful towards the church. I've found that that comes mostly from those who are trying to lead double lives.
I've also learned a few lessons about making friends.
One thing I have learned is that I can't take the rejection of an offered friendship personally. I can't take what someone thinks about me or how they react to me as an indication of my personal value or worth as a person if my offer of fellowship or friendship was given with good intentions and honesty. There are times when that rejection has nothing to do with me and more to do with another persons emotional issues. Perhaps I remind them of something about themselves they are trying to avoid or forget or maybe its just an outward sign of there own inward struggle. When we are trying to feel normal we often attracted towards those we consider normal.
One final thought. I also can't let the way I've been treated by a few color the way I treat others. I do need to maybe listen more and talk less. Not be so free with my advice or opinions but I also need to be more forgiving. The hardest part of being forgiving is being able to forgive when someone hurts you and won't acknowledge it or apologize. True love will allow you to forgive that person and accept their flaws even if they refuse to do the same for you. I don't know why some people react to me the way they do. But I need to love them anyways and be willing to accept them as they are. I don't by to the notion that you can only have a few real friends. I think the power of love is insurmountable and there is always room for one more friend. Forgiveness needs to mean something to the person we are forgiving. It can't just be done to make us feel better. It has to be real. And sometimes its not accepted, but as long as my attempt is genuine then
that's all that matters.
The Internet is a tool for keeping in touch with friends, not a substitute for friends. But I also think its a good way to move beyond you local social network and reach out to new people and make new friends.
If I turned my back on everyone that I think is sinning I am making a mistake. I think also trying to project the "I love you even if you are a sinner" mentality can also be patronizing. I am honesty trying as hard as I can and being as faithful as I can. And that's something. I'm not perfect. But I need love and friends to. When I don't post for a while it would be good to know that people miss me or wonder how I am. We all need this. There are a lot of LDS guys who struggle with this who have given up. I think that those of us who are here are making an attempt no matter how strong or weak that attempt is to hold to something. I don't think we will ever get to the Celestial Kingdom fighting alone.
Honestly there are times when I can only be as faithful as I have the strength to be. These are times when I need support. If this is true for anyone else. If the church is true there will be a time when if I am trying, than I will be more fully converted.
Again if I have offended anyone in the past I'm sorry. I hope you will forgive me and give me another chance. I'd like to know what I did and be given a chance to fix it. But I also refuse to dwell on it past this. I'm extending a hand and an apology. I'm willing to move it further if anyone I've hurt wants to. But I won't force it. I'm sorry if my efforts to reach out have bothered anyone. They were done with the best intentions. I was only trying to be supportive and show love for those who struggle also. I have so much respect for those of you who are trying and I feel for those of you who feel like giving up. I've been there so many times. I understand. If you need a friend or someone to talk to I'm here.
I'm 34, an RM and live in Northern California. I have a testimony of the Savior, the Prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, the church and the Prophet.
I'm also attracted to guys.
I know how hard it is to believe something and to feel something else. The contradiction is painful. I think that it's healthy to be honest with yourself, it's the first step in trying to face it and overcome it. And yes, I said overcome it. That doesn't mean deny it or pretend it doesn't exist, it means "I choose to act not be acted on." I believe that my struggle is part of the "natural man" and I need to overcome the desires to live by the flesh and my lusts and live the way God wants me to live. That also means feel love the way God wants me to love. I also know God gave me this struggle to test and refine me, I know in Mormon culture we like to call our struggles gifts, but I do think it is a tool to teach me and to give me things I need to have to become who I am to become. I also know I need to acknowledge the way I feel as real.
I know so many guys who repress it and when they finally do cave, it turns them into really mean people who end up bitter, cynical and sarcastic towards the Church, God and anyone who is trying to be faithful to it or who may in their attempts to be faithful make them feel guilty.
I am so grateful to Elder Oaks for making it clear that I am not to use my feelings or attractions to define who I am and that it is my actions not my feelings that I am accountable for. I am not really out. I mean I've talked to my bishop. I've never really told my parents. I tell people who I think need to know. But I don't see it as being something that I need to "come out proud" about. That's a worldly concept. I am who I am, I am me first and foremost.
As for me personally, I've been to the temple and I've taken covenants that "I won't have sexual relations (notice the word relations and not sex, I believe that means things like making out, kissing and whatnot), with anyone expect with the person I'm married to." And so the bottom line is at least in this respect, I know what God's eternal purpose is for me and I can't reach that in a homosexual relationship. It's really that plain and simple. I can fight against the pricks so to speak and drag my feet and cry about how unfair it is. I can curse God and try to come up with reasons why I am the exceptions to the rules. But if the church is true and that is the doctrine, then I have to accept it if I want to be faithful. God is no respecter of persons and he doesn't give Personal Revelation that would counter what we know is true. I know he can give us revelations to help us individually be faithful and that isn't always the same as he would give
others but its always about how we can stay on the right path. Its more like a GPS system then being given a different map altogether.
Now having said that, I do believe that there can be real love between two guys. It just can't be eternal as much as I want it to be, or hope it could be. If what I believe is true it will have great eternal consequences. This is the hard part because I know that love can be just as real right now and that love can trap someone into not wanting to accept the truth and keep them bound to something that will eventually have devastating effects on their eternal lives.
At times I've thought I could make a compromise with God, if I could be with a man I love, I'd forgo sex and just live with him monogamously, coupled but celibate. And at times I've also wondered how God can keep his promise to me that if I'm faithful I can marry someone I love when I've never liked girls. And yes I've used "attraction" as an excuse not to pursue dating saying that "it's unfair to the girl." But I've also come to realize those aren't the real reasons. They are good excuses that make me feel better about not doing what I know I should. Because while I say I want to, I really don't and it really does come down to what I want and what I'm willing to do. I can believe God or my own doubts. Both are powerful forces.
These are hard questions for me and while I don't know the hows, I believe I know the answers, it comes in being faithful and following the Prophet. Its just hard to follow the Prophet sometimes when you feel like the answers are general and don't take how you feel into consideration. But then I also have to hold onto the fact that as far as Christs atonement is concerned, the pain He felt was very personal. He not only suffered for my sins but He also suffered and endured my pain so He knows how I feel. So if His servants give me a commandment from Him, while that servant may not fully understand it or give it with the verbiage that I feel shows understanding, I have to have faith in who his master is and that He loves me and understands me.
I've been "the only" for a long time. Growing up in the church in a small town meant facing being the only LDS guy at school and being judged according to those standards. Then add feeling like I was t"he only" one at Church who was different. I've never felt like I've fit in. And of course growing up in the Church being "gay" was a sin. No one ever told me that I could have those feelings and it wasn't my fault. It wasn't taught but it was implied that "I choose to feel this way" I knew I didn't, so I felt as if I was some sort of mistake. I went on a mission, and developed a strong testimony, but I cam home still attracted to guys. But all of this has made me stronger.
It also has unfortunately at times made me very head strong. I've joined some of the "moho" groups, again I use that term only for clarity, I think its a bad term which turns us into "ites." Personally, I reject a lot of the ideas that come from this community. We are all flawed people. These flaws are tools that God uses to teach us. I think a lot of the new philosophies out there serve to make us feel unbroken and fixed. As if there is really nothing wrong with us. That we need to "accept ourselves as we are if we are to be happy" and that change isn't possible and even a sin to consider. While I'll agree that change means more of a change of heart then change of feeling, I believe it means humbling ourselves to His will and not insist on Him accepting ours and then trying to mold the gospel around it. I believe that in order to be true disciples we have to mold our will around His. We are ALL broken and need fixing. That's what the atonement of
Jesus Christ is all about. That's the whole point of mortality. To overcome those things that do hold us back.
I think sticking to these ideas have led in part to me failing in my attempts to make friends because I can come off as preachy or over zealous or clingy or whatever emotional issue people want to use to make themselves feel better about judging me and distancing themselves from me.
And, YES I WRITE LONG POSTS!!!
I've tried reaching out to some in the LDS gay or SGA community and have found that to be honest with you those who are struggling can be just as mean and hateful as anyone in the gay community. But I also need to accept that a lot of it comes as a self defense mechanism. Its a product of self loathing and double life they are trying to lead. They don't want to feel bad, they want support. I may remind them of something they see in themselves that makes them feel unconformable or I remind them of something they want to block out. But support needs to hold up not justify or enable. They can also be just as judgmental about things like a persons age and physical appearances. If I am saying some harsh things, remember these are based on my own personal experiences.
And yes, while I know this may be making an unfair "generalization" I think there is some truth to it. I can't really "gay it up" at Gossip or some other gay club or bar on Saturday and than pass the Sacrament on Sunday, as if I'm visiting Sodom on a day pass. I can't than get mad at someone and call them judgmental who may point out the inconsistency. I can't use the "the Savior said not to judge me" card knowing that he also said "go and sin no more." BUT and I admit, I'm also very good at graying the area and saying "I just go to be with my friends and dance" but I know the other reason is that in some ways I crave being in an environment where I can let my hair down, "be who I want to be right now" and forget who "I'm trying to be," I can be "myself." These places normalize what I know is a sin but wish I could partake in without sinning. But I also know that the Sprint is miles away from those places.
Its hard when you don't fit in into either camp. And ironically some of my closet friends, those who have encouraged me to stay faithful have been LDS guys who are in gay relationships. I don't really know how to explain this other then to say that while I do believe what they are doing is wrong, they are living with honesty and not living double lives or trying to hide stuff. I also think deep down they know what they have given up and they don't want to see someone else go that path. I've also realized that these guys, while inactive aren't bitter or hateful towards the church. I've found that that comes mostly from those who are trying to lead double lives.
I've also learned a few lessons about making friends.
One thing I have learned is that I can't take the rejection of an offered friendship personally. I can't take what someone thinks about me or how they react to me as an indication of my personal value or worth as a person if my offer of fellowship or friendship was given with good intentions and honesty. There are times when that rejection has nothing to do with me and more to do with another persons emotional issues. Perhaps I remind them of something about themselves they are trying to avoid or forget or maybe its just an outward sign of there own inward struggle. When we are trying to feel normal we often attracted towards those we consider normal.
One final thought. I also can't let the way I've been treated by a few color the way I treat others. I do need to maybe listen more and talk less. Not be so free with my advice or opinions but I also need to be more forgiving. The hardest part of being forgiving is being able to forgive when someone hurts you and won't acknowledge it or apologize. True love will allow you to forgive that person and accept their flaws even if they refuse to do the same for you. I don't know why some people react to me the way they do. But I need to love them anyways and be willing to accept them as they are. I don't by to the notion that you can only have a few real friends. I think the power of love is insurmountable and there is always room for one more friend. Forgiveness needs to mean something to the person we are forgiving. It can't just be done to make us feel better. It has to be real. And sometimes its not accepted, but as long as my attempt is genuine then
that's all that matters.
The Internet is a tool for keeping in touch with friends, not a substitute for friends. But I also think its a good way to move beyond you local social network and reach out to new people and make new friends.
If I turned my back on everyone that I think is sinning I am making a mistake. I think also trying to project the "I love you even if you are a sinner" mentality can also be patronizing. I am honesty trying as hard as I can and being as faithful as I can. And that's something. I'm not perfect. But I need love and friends to. When I don't post for a while it would be good to know that people miss me or wonder how I am. We all need this. There are a lot of LDS guys who struggle with this who have given up. I think that those of us who are here are making an attempt no matter how strong or weak that attempt is to hold to something. I don't think we will ever get to the Celestial Kingdom fighting alone.
Honestly there are times when I can only be as faithful as I have the strength to be. These are times when I need support. If this is true for anyone else. If the church is true there will be a time when if I am trying, than I will be more fully converted.
Again if I have offended anyone in the past I'm sorry. I hope you will forgive me and give me another chance. I'd like to know what I did and be given a chance to fix it. But I also refuse to dwell on it past this. I'm extending a hand and an apology. I'm willing to move it further if anyone I've hurt wants to. But I won't force it. I'm sorry if my efforts to reach out have bothered anyone. They were done with the best intentions. I was only trying to be supportive and show love for those who struggle also. I have so much respect for those of you who are trying and I feel for those of you who feel like giving up. I've been there so many times. I understand. If you need a friend or someone to talk to I'm here.
Sunday, October 7, 2007
Letter to a friend: The Gospel, The Church and The Culture
This is a comment I left on a friends blog. I think it addresses some key issues. I wanted to share it here.
The more and more I read your blogs the more and more I want to point out that I think your biggest problem is that you have confused the culture of the church with the doctrine.
If you or your friends, including ATP and who else may be reading this reads this comment and if I can say one thing that you will take serious and ponder, I ask that you read this. I will repost it to my blog and I seriously would like to have comments on it. Please know that I'm am trying to write you with true love and reassurance. I feel I know your heart even if we don't see eye to eye.
A. The doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way that we will ever come to the Savior. It is true. It is THE ONLY way to gain exultation and salvation. The atonement is the key.
B. The Church of Jesus Christ is true. It is divinely led by inspiration. Christ is at the head of the Church. It is led on Earth by men who are inspired but who are also NOT perfect.
C. Mormonism is a culture. There are many good and wonderful things about this culture. But there are also many things that are dogmatic that aren't true. And yes a lot of the culture is at odds with the doctrine. You can be as good a Latter-day Saint living far off in the littlest branch with not the slightest bit of Mormon Culture. As long as you live the doctrine and keep the commandments.
There are three parts that I've spoken about. I want to make it clear. They are connected. But only the first is Eternal. The second will lead you to and keep you true to the first. The third is only a product of both, but in itself its worthless. That's why being culturally Mormon won't save you.
There are things that are true that are doctrine that to be honest are hard to accept because they go against our own personal desires and wants. There are things that we are ask to sacrifice in obiendence. There are things that we need to accept as true in faith. And there are things that aren't really that important.
There are things like Pres Monson said in the Priesthood session are like little strings that we carry in our pockets that will keep us from the things that are really important.
There are things that keep people from being friends that shouldn't. And yes there are people that if you listen to them will convince you that things that are true are false and that a key element of agency is the ability to choose without fear what is wicked and what will rob you of eternal blessing and that because we aren't to judge others we have a license to sin with out any consequences.
But there are also those who some would call monsters who are just wounded souls needing love and acceptance and tolerance. Most of all they need to feel like they are children of God and not spiritual orphans. I know I need to forgive some of those people who may have offended me as those who are simply lashing out because of hurt in their own lives.
I don't know what else I can say. I accept you as a friend and brother. It's up to you to accept me. I can't help what you think of me, but I have all the power over what I think about you.
I wish you would realize that the gospel is true. That the church needs people like you to help those who do struggle. You can be the most faithful member of the church. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between culture, dogma and true doctrine.
Keep the faith, pray, stay close to the Spirit. Reach out. A friend of mines mother once gave him good advice about choosing friends. If you are spending time with people who you know are are doing things that are wrong. Just be careful. If your good habits rub off on them, awesome. You may be the only light they have in their life. But if you risk having their bad habits rub off on you then you need to be careful and may need to step back.
At any rate, everyone needs love and acceptance even people like me. I'll keep you in my prayers and I will always consider you a friend.
The more and more I read your blogs the more and more I want to point out that I think your biggest problem is that you have confused the culture of the church with the doctrine.
If you or your friends, including ATP and who else may be reading this reads this comment and if I can say one thing that you will take serious and ponder, I ask that you read this. I will repost it to my blog and I seriously would like to have comments on it. Please know that I'm am trying to write you with true love and reassurance. I feel I know your heart even if we don't see eye to eye.
A. The doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way that we will ever come to the Savior. It is true. It is THE ONLY way to gain exultation and salvation. The atonement is the key.
B. The Church of Jesus Christ is true. It is divinely led by inspiration. Christ is at the head of the Church. It is led on Earth by men who are inspired but who are also NOT perfect.
C. Mormonism is a culture. There are many good and wonderful things about this culture. But there are also many things that are dogmatic that aren't true. And yes a lot of the culture is at odds with the doctrine. You can be as good a Latter-day Saint living far off in the littlest branch with not the slightest bit of Mormon Culture. As long as you live the doctrine and keep the commandments.
There are three parts that I've spoken about. I want to make it clear. They are connected. But only the first is Eternal. The second will lead you to and keep you true to the first. The third is only a product of both, but in itself its worthless. That's why being culturally Mormon won't save you.
There are things that are true that are doctrine that to be honest are hard to accept because they go against our own personal desires and wants. There are things that we are ask to sacrifice in obiendence. There are things that we need to accept as true in faith. And there are things that aren't really that important.
There are things like Pres Monson said in the Priesthood session are like little strings that we carry in our pockets that will keep us from the things that are really important.
There are things that keep people from being friends that shouldn't. And yes there are people that if you listen to them will convince you that things that are true are false and that a key element of agency is the ability to choose without fear what is wicked and what will rob you of eternal blessing and that because we aren't to judge others we have a license to sin with out any consequences.
But there are also those who some would call monsters who are just wounded souls needing love and acceptance and tolerance. Most of all they need to feel like they are children of God and not spiritual orphans. I know I need to forgive some of those people who may have offended me as those who are simply lashing out because of hurt in their own lives.
I don't know what else I can say. I accept you as a friend and brother. It's up to you to accept me. I can't help what you think of me, but I have all the power over what I think about you.
I wish you would realize that the gospel is true. That the church needs people like you to help those who do struggle. You can be the most faithful member of the church. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between culture, dogma and true doctrine.
Keep the faith, pray, stay close to the Spirit. Reach out. A friend of mines mother once gave him good advice about choosing friends. If you are spending time with people who you know are are doing things that are wrong. Just be careful. If your good habits rub off on them, awesome. You may be the only light they have in their life. But if you risk having their bad habits rub off on you then you need to be careful and may need to step back.
At any rate, everyone needs love and acceptance even people like me. I'll keep you in my prayers and I will always consider you a friend.
Monday, September 3, 2007
Attacks from other bloggers
Wow, I must have pecked at a nerve. An entire blog dedicated to me!!! And there isn't any references to Crow excrement. I compliment you.
And of course its an open invitations for everyone else to add their pot shots. To attack the intolerant, to belittle the zealot with their smug sarcastic and enlightened statements that aren't clouded by the repressive influences of the church. So now that we are all in our respective corners with our dander up and ready to attack how should we proceed?
I love the way Zeal for the gospel is now a bad thing. And defending things that the church says will prevent us from progressing is now en vogue.
Okay, first of all. I'm really not sure why there is dissent. The church isn't forcing anyone to stick around if they don't want to. No one if forcing anyone to believe anything. That's why its called faith. That's why we need to use our agency to make a choice. We aren't hear following Saten's plan. Yes, if you want to be faithful to the church you do need "to be of one heart and one voice." Yes, it is possible to do this and retain your own sense of individuality.
That is what agency is all about. If you disagree or feel something is wrong, then please by all means develop a backbone and follow through with your beliefs. Stop wallowing in self loathing. If you choose to leave the church, that's your choice and we need to respect it, love you and accept you.
Of course those of us who do have testimonies will think you are making a eternally devastating mistake. If we love you and also believe in the church we would of course feel that way. Oh perhaps you need to walk way and lose it in order to realize what you do have and desire to get it back. Who knows. We don't receive revelation for you, your the only one that can do that. All I can do is pray for you and hold to what we believe is the gospel.
But please have respect for those of us who do want to stay and remain faithful and and leave the church alone.
Its ironic that the same person who who accuses me of "preaching" items that are not official stances of the church is the same person who rejected my friendship after I offered what I thought was a heartfelt and public apology and is now using my blogs or at least thats the implication in his comment here as one of his excuses to "go elsewhere." I really would like someone to clue me in what apostate doctrine I'm exposing. What untruths am I guilty of spreading.
Bloggers here can bash the prophet and his appearance on Larry King and other interview and attack leaders like Elder Bateman for his statements. They can tear apart and parody the Elder Oak's and Wickman Interview. They can offer their version of what the Church should say in their opinion since they seem to think they now receive inspirations to lead the church and guide those to go against those called to be Prophet, Seers and Revalators.
They can come right out and say that church leaders are wrong and then they can go off and say I'm somehow intolerant and closed minded because I have the nerve to stand up for things that I do consider sacred and that I clearly remember making a covenant not to be part of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed" and to stand up for the church when I encounter this. I'm a bad person for sticking to what I said I would do.
I've been told if you don't like what I've blogged don't read it. Well what's the point? Do you only blog so that those who agree with you can back you up? Are you saying you don't want dissent? Are you saying you want to crush anyone who has an opinion that goes against yours?
I posted today why I had taken a step back. Why I had stopped reading these blogs. I felt that was a peace offering and a move towards more tolerance on both parts. But apparently that's not how bloggers play. Today I let curiosity get the best of me and I returned. And what do I find and entire attack based on me. All I can say is wow, I'm flattered that I've had this kind of effect on everyone. I am sorry that the attacks have to continue. I guess being Christlike in the Moho community is another word for conditional love and acceptance.
I have found those who demand tolerance don't normally understand what it is to be tolerant. In fact they are normally the least tolerant ones out there. It's there way or no way, it's black and white. You are either with us or you're not. You don't have a right to an opinion if you disagree with us its because you are a ignorant bigot. Ironicly isn't that sorta what I'm accused of here? Seeing things as black and white?
If they can't debate in a civil and respectful way, they resort to petty insults and attacks. If they can't argue against the message their next move is to belittle the messenger. If they can make that person message appear tactless and simple-minded they can win by default or at least feel smug in that they have been attacked.
I'm sorry if I mistakenly believed that it was somehow admirable to stay faithful to the church. That my CTR ring meant choose the right. Apparently it means Choose the relative.
If I'm standing for what I believe, I honestly don't care if you tolerate or not tolerate me. Because I know whom I'm standing up for. If I'm bad for believing that I'm right then I suppose anyone who argues with me is also guilty of the same offense. I only worry about one judge.
I've heard so many people blog about being tolerant and Christlike. But apparently thats only reserved for those who go along with what is the group think here. Again more of what I'm being accused of.
That's one thing you can't accuse me of. I may disagree with you but I'd never openly attack you. I may defend myself as any human would who is attacked. I may disagree with you and tell you why. If you want to take it as an attack that's your issue. But I also would rather us work it out and be friends then continue to take pot shots at each other.
And of course its an open invitations for everyone else to add their pot shots. To attack the intolerant, to belittle the zealot with their smug sarcastic and enlightened statements that aren't clouded by the repressive influences of the church. So now that we are all in our respective corners with our dander up and ready to attack how should we proceed?
I love the way Zeal for the gospel is now a bad thing. And defending things that the church says will prevent us from progressing is now en vogue.
Okay, first of all. I'm really not sure why there is dissent. The church isn't forcing anyone to stick around if they don't want to. No one if forcing anyone to believe anything. That's why its called faith. That's why we need to use our agency to make a choice. We aren't hear following Saten's plan. Yes, if you want to be faithful to the church you do need "to be of one heart and one voice." Yes, it is possible to do this and retain your own sense of individuality.
That is what agency is all about. If you disagree or feel something is wrong, then please by all means develop a backbone and follow through with your beliefs. Stop wallowing in self loathing. If you choose to leave the church, that's your choice and we need to respect it, love you and accept you.
Of course those of us who do have testimonies will think you are making a eternally devastating mistake. If we love you and also believe in the church we would of course feel that way. Oh perhaps you need to walk way and lose it in order to realize what you do have and desire to get it back. Who knows. We don't receive revelation for you, your the only one that can do that. All I can do is pray for you and hold to what we believe is the gospel.
But please have respect for those of us who do want to stay and remain faithful and and leave the church alone.
Its ironic that the same person who who accuses me of "preaching" items that are not official stances of the church is the same person who rejected my friendship after I offered what I thought was a heartfelt and public apology and is now using my blogs or at least thats the implication in his comment here as one of his excuses to "go elsewhere." I really would like someone to clue me in what apostate doctrine I'm exposing. What untruths am I guilty of spreading.
Bloggers here can bash the prophet and his appearance on Larry King and other interview and attack leaders like Elder Bateman for his statements. They can tear apart and parody the Elder Oak's and Wickman Interview. They can offer their version of what the Church should say in their opinion since they seem to think they now receive inspirations to lead the church and guide those to go against those called to be Prophet, Seers and Revalators.
They can come right out and say that church leaders are wrong and then they can go off and say I'm somehow intolerant and closed minded because I have the nerve to stand up for things that I do consider sacred and that I clearly remember making a covenant not to be part of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed" and to stand up for the church when I encounter this. I'm a bad person for sticking to what I said I would do.
I've been told if you don't like what I've blogged don't read it. Well what's the point? Do you only blog so that those who agree with you can back you up? Are you saying you don't want dissent? Are you saying you want to crush anyone who has an opinion that goes against yours?
I posted today why I had taken a step back. Why I had stopped reading these blogs. I felt that was a peace offering and a move towards more tolerance on both parts. But apparently that's not how bloggers play. Today I let curiosity get the best of me and I returned. And what do I find and entire attack based on me. All I can say is wow, I'm flattered that I've had this kind of effect on everyone. I am sorry that the attacks have to continue. I guess being Christlike in the Moho community is another word for conditional love and acceptance.
I have found those who demand tolerance don't normally understand what it is to be tolerant. In fact they are normally the least tolerant ones out there. It's there way or no way, it's black and white. You are either with us or you're not. You don't have a right to an opinion if you disagree with us its because you are a ignorant bigot. Ironicly isn't that sorta what I'm accused of here? Seeing things as black and white?
If they can't debate in a civil and respectful way, they resort to petty insults and attacks. If they can't argue against the message their next move is to belittle the messenger. If they can make that person message appear tactless and simple-minded they can win by default or at least feel smug in that they have been attacked.
I'm sorry if I mistakenly believed that it was somehow admirable to stay faithful to the church. That my CTR ring meant choose the right. Apparently it means Choose the relative.
If I'm standing for what I believe, I honestly don't care if you tolerate or not tolerate me. Because I know whom I'm standing up for. If I'm bad for believing that I'm right then I suppose anyone who argues with me is also guilty of the same offense. I only worry about one judge.
I've heard so many people blog about being tolerant and Christlike. But apparently thats only reserved for those who go along with what is the group think here. Again more of what I'm being accused of.
That's one thing you can't accuse me of. I may disagree with you but I'd never openly attack you. I may defend myself as any human would who is attacked. I may disagree with you and tell you why. If you want to take it as an attack that's your issue. But I also would rather us work it out and be friends then continue to take pot shots at each other.
Sunday, September 2, 2007
His work and His Glory and My apology
I started blogging think it would be a good outlet for myself to express myself. Then I started venturing into other blogs, mostly those in the Northern Lights site. After a while I was finding it wasn't having a positive effect on me and all I was doing was contending and defending the faith so to speak against people who I would probably otherwise really like but who are struggling to find a way to be faithful and still feel they are themselves. What I'm posting today is mostly a letter in response to a friend who wrote a letter to leave the church after years of struggling.
I have stepped back a few weeks and not posted anything because to be honest I don't think contending with varying opinions what is true and what is false in regards to the gospel isn't helping any one, and if anything is only frustrating and causing further contention. I wasn't feeling the spirit, in fact I was just amazed how many people thought so many different things about something that we do have a clear standard of truth about.
My friend wrote:
....that my desire in life is not to gain the greatest blessing, but to serve God with all my heart, might, mind, and strength.....
I think what would make God the most happy and would lead to his own complete happiness is knowing that all his children want and accepts the greatest blessings that he has to offer, the way a parent wants their children to gain those things. Nothing I think causes him greater grief then when one of his children rejects his gifts.
His work and his Glory is to bring to pass the exhalation and eternal life of men. We say he's perfect in that he is complete, but I wonder if he ever will be completely until he has finished "His work and His glory."
I don't dispute personal revelation but i still maintain it is given to help us find our own individual way of gaining this glory that is his work.
And perhaps maybe some of us won't get married or be attracted to girls in this life. But is it worth canceling our blessing and our sealings to your parents and throwing away everything because we feel we can't accept a part of it. Our leaders are just teaching what they have been inspired to teach about what is "His work and His Glory."
Yes find other ways to serve him. Be faithful, do your best. Be open to change if it is to happen. Change isn't bad. Its how we grow. But I do know that we will be blessed as much for our effort as we are for our accomplishment. In the temple we are endowed that through our faithfulness we will be MADE worthy. Not by anything we can do alone. Like the atonement, we can't do it alone.
Last week we studied in Sunday school the Athens and how the philosophers spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing. (Acts 17:21) They turned to logic and what made sense to them. What they lost was the fact that they were "the offspring of God" and that as children of God their roles are the same as God. Paul taught them that when we understand God's nature we understand our own. Paul didn't try to reason with them, he just bore a powerful testimony of the Love of God. They felt it and while it didn't make sense or was logical, they felt it inside and were converted.
Just stay close to what you can. Be faithful to what you can. You don't have to go all or nothing now.
I know that for those of us struggling this is a lot like what Abraham had to endure when he was asked to offer up Issac. We are being ask to give something up that we feel is part of us, that we do love that we do feel is real. But I do have faith that if we do take our Issac's up to the alter that the Lord will provide us a lamb. Is it cruel of the Lord to test us this way? Well when compared to what he wants to reward us with maybe he has to in order to see if we are strong enough for what he wants to give us. Maybe thats the real reason we are being tested.
I'm sorry if I've ever said anything that upset you or anyone else here. I only did so in love and not to contend with you. I hope you understand that. If I really didn't care or thought you were pointless or not worthy of friendship I would have walked away. I know you are just trying to make since of something that doesn't make sense. I know cause I've been there to.
Sometimes I think we don't write what we want. We write what we feel and instead of reacting we need to listen. We need to listen between the lines and not react to the words. We need to react to the feeling and not to the thoughts. Sometimes we lash out when we are hurt and sometimes we do just need to love.
Sometimes its not a matter of being right or wrong. Its a matter of feeling loved and accepted. And loving and accepting those who do struggle with one thing or another. As a church and people I think we need to work on the second part of that much much more.
I have stepped back a few weeks and not posted anything because to be honest I don't think contending with varying opinions what is true and what is false in regards to the gospel isn't helping any one, and if anything is only frustrating and causing further contention. I wasn't feeling the spirit, in fact I was just amazed how many people thought so many different things about something that we do have a clear standard of truth about.
My friend wrote:
....that my desire in life is not to gain the greatest blessing, but to serve God with all my heart, might, mind, and strength.....
I think what would make God the most happy and would lead to his own complete happiness is knowing that all his children want and accepts the greatest blessings that he has to offer, the way a parent wants their children to gain those things. Nothing I think causes him greater grief then when one of his children rejects his gifts.
His work and his Glory is to bring to pass the exhalation and eternal life of men. We say he's perfect in that he is complete, but I wonder if he ever will be completely until he has finished "His work and His glory."
I don't dispute personal revelation but i still maintain it is given to help us find our own individual way of gaining this glory that is his work.
And perhaps maybe some of us won't get married or be attracted to girls in this life. But is it worth canceling our blessing and our sealings to your parents and throwing away everything because we feel we can't accept a part of it. Our leaders are just teaching what they have been inspired to teach about what is "His work and His Glory."
Yes find other ways to serve him. Be faithful, do your best. Be open to change if it is to happen. Change isn't bad. Its how we grow. But I do know that we will be blessed as much for our effort as we are for our accomplishment. In the temple we are endowed that through our faithfulness we will be MADE worthy. Not by anything we can do alone. Like the atonement, we can't do it alone.
Last week we studied in Sunday school the Athens and how the philosophers spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing. (Acts 17:21) They turned to logic and what made sense to them. What they lost was the fact that they were "the offspring of God" and that as children of God their roles are the same as God. Paul taught them that when we understand God's nature we understand our own. Paul didn't try to reason with them, he just bore a powerful testimony of the Love of God. They felt it and while it didn't make sense or was logical, they felt it inside and were converted.
Just stay close to what you can. Be faithful to what you can. You don't have to go all or nothing now.
I know that for those of us struggling this is a lot like what Abraham had to endure when he was asked to offer up Issac. We are being ask to give something up that we feel is part of us, that we do love that we do feel is real. But I do have faith that if we do take our Issac's up to the alter that the Lord will provide us a lamb. Is it cruel of the Lord to test us this way? Well when compared to what he wants to reward us with maybe he has to in order to see if we are strong enough for what he wants to give us. Maybe thats the real reason we are being tested.
I'm sorry if I've ever said anything that upset you or anyone else here. I only did so in love and not to contend with you. I hope you understand that. If I really didn't care or thought you were pointless or not worthy of friendship I would have walked away. I know you are just trying to make since of something that doesn't make sense. I know cause I've been there to.
Sometimes I think we don't write what we want. We write what we feel and instead of reacting we need to listen. We need to listen between the lines and not react to the words. We need to react to the feeling and not to the thoughts. Sometimes we lash out when we are hurt and sometimes we do just need to love.
Sometimes its not a matter of being right or wrong. Its a matter of feeling loved and accepted. And loving and accepting those who do struggle with one thing or another. As a church and people I think we need to work on the second part of that much much more.
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